Hinterkaifeck was a small, family-owned farm in the Bavarian region of Germany. In April of 1922, this busy farm suddenly grew quiet and it seemed the family who lived there just disappeared. A few days later, this family was discovered, battered, beaten and brutally murdered. Who could have been evil enough to murder an entire family? The answer, is still unknown to this day…but we do have ideas.
PLUS: Threesomes are fun, right? Right?? Well, not for these Florida men.
Time Stamps
- Intro 00:00
- Mail Call 06:10
- Florida Man 39:50
- Have Mattock, Will MURDER!!! 47:30
Executive Producers for this episode are Christine Rivera, Beth Davis, Dusty Jay Hicks, and Terri Burke-Wolin.
Associate Producers are Paul Hodge, Tara Mazur, Shantal Daggett, Jay from Fright Flick FMK, Cherise Webb and Donny Blake.
Producers are JD, Trent Gobble, Devin Dean, Ashlee O’Connor, Lissa Porrello, Alicia Knight, Maria Selene, Kris Owen, NOT That Chad, Emily White, Iain Turner, Dom Cicchitto, Emily Dickendasher, Debby from True Crime University, Jeanette LeBlanc and Renee Prata.
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Hinterkaifeck was a small, family-owned farm in the Bavarian region of Germany. In March of 1922, this busy farm suddenly grew quiet and it seemed the family who lived there just disappeared. A few days later, this family was discovered battered, beaten and brutally murdered. Who could have been evil enough to murder an entire family? The answer is unknown to this day. But, garrett, we do have ideas.
Speaker 1:I'm Dave Jari, I'm Garrett Corder, and this is Criminal as Fuck. What's good? All you criminals, the boss and true crime douchebags, and welcome to another episode of Criminal AF. What's good? All you criminals debauched and true crime douchebags. And welcome to another episode of Criminal AF. Once again, I am Dave Jari, and with me, as always, is my co-host, garrett Corder. How we doing? Let's all give a huge Criminal AF shout out to Not that Chad for becoming our newest member of the debauched. Not that Chad, not that Chad, the other Chad. And a special shout out goes out to Jeanette LeBlanc LeBlanc Should I say English or French, leblanc LeBlanc For upgrading her membership. So thank you all so much for being a part of our fucked up family. And also a shout out goes out to all of our free members Thank you all for being amazing.
Speaker 1:Before we jump into all the fun today, and it will be fun, garrett, we just need to go over some things regarding criminal AF. Now, we're a comedic, informative, true crime-ish podcast True crime-ish Meaning. We do talk about some true crime, like Florida man and today's episode, the Matic Murders. We'll also be talking about some things not related to true crime, like our mail call call, but whatever we do talk about, we're going to have some fun doing it, of course. Now, sometimes we find that certain aspects of these stories are hilarious yes, I did say hilarious and sometimes we like to call people out for being dirtbags or some keystone cops that fumble a case and you know, whatever plethora of fucking hijinks happens. If this is your first time joining us, you're about to experience a couple of guys who have ADHD and we also fucking swear a lot, so who knows where these conversations will take us? I think we're most likened to I would say we're a guilty pleasure podcast, you know, like one that people love to listen to.
Speaker 3:But God forbid if their family or friends know they don't want to tell their friends, right, what would they say at the pto meeting? We're the sneaky link of podcasts. Yeah, we're the sketchy guy at the bar that you bring home at 2 am, that you let take you home at 2 am yeah, and then you're like yeah, I probably shouldn't have done that.
Speaker 1:Don't ever tell anyone, don't you tell anybody fucking christ.
Speaker 3:Christina, stop, don't tell.
Speaker 1:With that being said, we do discuss some pretty horrific and tragic stories that involve murder. Yay.
Speaker 3:Rape Aw Torture.
Speaker 1:And we will not shy away from the most gruesome of details, regardless of how disgusting they may be. Now we understand that Criminal AF is not for everyone, and that's okay, and we just ask that you at least give it a listen If it's not for you. Thanks for checking it out, see ya, but if it is welcome to the debauchery, now head on over to criminalasfuckcom for all of your criminal AF needs. If you don't want the word fuck in your search history, then just go to criminalafpodcastcom, stop being a bitch too, or criminalafllc.
Speaker 1:I don't want to hear it.
Speaker 3:Stop being a bitch, honestly, the fact that we have fuck as our URL. Come on guys, who's doing that? Not many people do that In the world of this PC bullshit. You have to type in fuck to get to our website, yeah, come. You have to type in fuck to get to our website, yeah, come on, it just feels good.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know, I agree, I agree, it's like a. It's like a. What do they call those? Microaggression? You know, it's like oh, let me go on a website. Oh, criminal that's fuck yeah, yeah. It feels so good. Yeah, yeah. So anyway you can go there At criminalisfuckcom reviews.
Speaker 3:Send us messages for mail, call rate, oh rate, uh rate dave's feet, oh yeah I got please he's on wiki feet, guys, yeah I got feet pics on there go, go up. You know it'd be crazy. What if?
Speaker 5:after I say that.
Speaker 3:What if I say after I say that you're on there and the fucking hits yeah, the heads fucking bump all of a sudden somebody snagged your feet now, while you're visiting criminal af, go check out our merch.
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Speaker 1:Meep, meep, meep, meep, meep, meep, meep. Criminal AF will be back after this quick break.
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Speaker 5:So you like to listen to people talk about crime, but did you ever wonder why criminals do the things they do, like what makes them tick? My name is Debbie and I'm the professor at True Crime University. Join me in the classroom Thursdays wherever you get your podcasts for intellectual discussions about crime, psychology and why criminals do what they do. See you there.
Speaker 4:Now back to Criminal AF.
Speaker 5:Mail call. Mail call.
Speaker 1:Sue, mail call. Welcome to Mail Call, where you can send in your questions and we answer them Can be any question you want True crime questions, serious questions, random questions, situational questions. How's my rash doing? It could be like that. I'm kidding, I don't have a rash. Everything is fair game for Mail Call. How do you get your question in? You just go to criminalasfuck againcom and go to the Send it In tab. There you'll find our Mail Call link where you can email us your questions. And if you'd rather send in a voice question, just click the red microphone and record your question oh, before we get in a mail, call too.
Speaker 3:Gotten messages from a lot of people that talked about how ridiculous that last episode was. By the way, oh, yeah, how crazy that story was yeah, that was fucking wild. Imagine that he was in those walls for fucking weeks a lot of people like are like, that's my worst like a lot of fears and phobias were activated listening to that.
Speaker 5:There's a lot of people.
Speaker 3:A lot of women are afraid to be at home and some dude is just in their house Fucking wild.
Speaker 1:Dude Fucking wild, because if you're just looking like in the space of your walls right here, he's got to be a contortion artist too.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it was just.
Speaker 1:yeah, it's a good episode. Check your house.
Speaker 3:Go, you never know.
Speaker 1:Our first question for this segment is from Nicole, and she actually sent us a voice question. I like these voice questions. Send in your voice questions.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, yeah, voice questions over emails, here we go.
Speaker 4:Hey guys, love listening to you. I wanted to ask.
Speaker 1:I'm originally from Connecticut, I know that's where you guys are wanted to see if you have any favorites, either serial killers or stories from connecticut that are your favorite. Oh, good one, good one, good one. Uh, I would say that there is one case from connecticut that has always intrigued me, and it happened only a couple towns away from us, in waterford actually a town where we work and that's the case of Kyle Seidel. I hope I'm pronouncing it right.
Speaker 5:Yeah, I remember that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, kyle was 34 years old, he was married, he was a father of three. He went out on the night of December 21st 2012, to pick up dinner for him and his family Later that night at 8 o'clock pm. Just a short time later, kyle's car was found pulled into the parking lot of the Family Bowl bowling alley, with Kyle laying on the ground with fatal gunshot wounds. He never regained consciousness and died later at the hospital. The reason this is all very strange from the reports I've read is that Kyle was not a bad guy. He was a good guy. He was a hard worker, he devoted to his family, and the way his car was positioned in the parking lot like it wasn't actually in a parking spot, but it was just like as if he just pulled in and stepped out of the car.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know, it makes it look like he didn't intend to stop there. Now, could it be someone flagged him down or a possible road rage incident? You know that escalated quickly, who knows? But his car door was open, was left open and his car was still running when he was found. Now the case remains open. To this day, no one has ever come forward with information on what happened that night. It's just a complete mystery. Like honey, I'm going to go pick up the pizza and a half hour later, face down in a parking lot somewhere, we found your husband dead. What? What the fuck just happened Now and where this happened.
Speaker 3:I've always said road rage. I'm gonna say road rage. I've always said road rage. Yeah, somebody, he.
Speaker 1:He slammed on his brakes check either either he cut somebody off and they fucking pulled over or someone caught him, I don't know something. In that moment, from his house to there, something fucking happened and it was like kind of like a quick, just pull over to the side. You know what I mean kind of thing. Now, where this happened, it's not some fucking back road hick, fuck, you know, because there's a lot of hick areas up here in connecticut. You know, I mean, where we're from. Yeah, we talk about it, but this is like main strip, this is like boston post road lots of traffic, lots of traffic. Um, so somebody had to have seen this, yeah, and it wasn't like late, I mean, this was like 7, 38 o'clock at night yeah, but at the same time, if you're just driving around the road not paying attention to the side, hmm, yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 3:People get a lot of, there's a lot of people that go through there though yeah, I don't know. Yeah, so still like everybody's in their own world. Yeah, it's like new york when you see like you just see like people getting stabbed and people are just what, where they have their headphones on, they're just face down walking.
Speaker 1:Yeah, or you're like walking down the sidewalk and somebody's like stealing fucking tires off a car yeah, you're just in your own fucking world don't't make eye contact Just go yeah, so this is like still open. It's currently a $25,000 reward leading to the arrest of the person or people that are responsible, and if anyone is listening to this and does have information to this case, they can contact Waterford Police Department at 860-442-0645. Imagine if we solve this fucking thing, dude.
Speaker 4:Imagine if we solve this. Listen amazing, if you guys love us and you support us and if you know anything about this case, I mean great, let's solve this case, yeah make sure, make sure you, I want, make sure you mention criminal af.
Speaker 3:I want, I want, I want the listeners of criminal af to do a don't fuck with cats documentary. Come on, let's go. Yeah, let's all get famous. All right question for you, though. Yeah, would you all right for me personally, because I would do this if somebody if my wife was murdered.
Speaker 5:Okay, right, or something crazy, you're going right there. Yeah, I'm gonna go.
Speaker 3:I'm gonna go, or you know, my mom, some any close somebody close to me no somebody close to me I would totally lie on the ransom you would wait lie twenty five thousand dollars for a loved one well, you would say it was $100,000?
Speaker 1:Oh, $100,000.
Speaker 3:Yeah, $200,000.
Speaker 1:And then give him $25,000?.
Speaker 3:I'd give him whatever I got you know, hey, but sorry here's $7.27. I'm sorry, Sorry, my mortgage came out this month.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, sorry, I just had to pay for my wife's fucking funeral, yeah, but you know what I mean. Like, go, go ahead. Granted twenty five thousand dollars, I could do quite a bit with twenty five thousand. Sure, it's a lot of money, but this is also you could argue.
Speaker 3:It's life-changing money, especially if you need it at that point. Right, if you need a new car, yeah, what.
Speaker 1:You know what I mean you're behind on your fucking mortgage. I mean, mean it is 2024. People are fucking losing their houses left and right. Yeah, well, it's only going to get worse too. Yeah, maybe add a little inflation money to this. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's what I'm saying Put it in a high escrow account, let it fucking build a.
Speaker 3:I'm telling you right now $200,000 for anybody who comes forward. They get to me, I got some.
Speaker 5:Applebee's gift cards.
Speaker 3:You like, sephora. Thank you for doing the right thing, though I appreciate you, appreciate you.
Speaker 1:Thank you for finding my list, Taylor.
Speaker 3:I'm totally inflating the money. Yeah, yeah, yeah, because I don't like. What are you going to do? Yeah, that's true, I don't know $25,000. I would be offended up in wherever I am If I was dead. If I was dead, if my family and my whole family Was like 25,000.
Speaker 1:All we can scrounge up is 25. That's. All you were worth to us is 25,000.
Speaker 3:I feel, offended my life insurance policy was more. You made more money off my death.
Speaker 1:I'm haunting all of you. But yeah, and let me tell you something, we don't live in a fucking metropolis you know what I mean? Yeah, like none of these towns around here are metropolises. They're new england, what's? What's the biggest city? 60, 70, 000? Well, harford, no, I mean in our corner, in our corner, yeah, 70, maybe 100, 100, 000 people. New london, no, you think I don't know. But the point is being like there's not a lot of people here, you know. I mean, somebody had to have fucking said something.
Speaker 3:40 000 in norwich, that's it 40 000. So new london is probably 50, 60 new london only has 27,000 Shut the fuck up Norwich has 10,000 more. So Norwich is probably the biggest one in this area, in this In our area, yeah, yeah, cause it's definitely Bigger than Groton.
Speaker 1:That's wild, yeah, but the point being Is like we're not A major fucking. You know what I mean. Yeah, like somebody. Somebody had to have Said something. You know what I mean. Somebody had to have said something, somebody had to have fucking. Hey, I might have fucking killed somebody, I'm not sure. Whatever, somebody knows, somebody definitely fucking knows. Anyway, all right, dave wants you guys to solve it. Yeah, go get it. Yeah, and make sure you say criminal. I heard this on Criminal AF. They said that you had $200,000 reward and a couple Applebee's gift cards.
Speaker 3:That fucking guy, garrett, said he had $200,000 and a fucking gift card to fucking Ulta. All right, what's your Connecticut case, case Altoids Sours for you, they're discontinued. Mine's going to be probably not a big famous one, but it happened here in Norwich. Did it happen at Mohegan Park, mohegan?
Speaker 1:Park Apartments. Oh, I was kidding Really.
Speaker 3:Yeah, mohegan Park Apartments Okay, oh okay. Yeah, jacqueline Worth yeah, okay, not a huge prolific murder or anything like that. No one's going to even know about it.
Speaker 3:If you're from around here, you will yeah it was definitely a big case in here and it was right around like I was. I think I was. I was in high school, it was. It was a big case. Basically, boyfriend was annoyed, baby daddy drama. Baby daddy drama, if I'm not mistaken. I'm probably butchering this because it's been a while. I don't know the case by heart, but he shot her through the door of her apartment in front of her kids, yeah, and then it was. That was a huge manhunt and then the trial was all big. I knew a lot of people who knew who she was, so it was like every day it was posting justice for Jacqueline, yeah. Well, like I said, I mean that was just a big moment in this local, local area.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because I at that time I was over in Montville and even I knew people who knew her. Yeah, I mean, so that's what I'm saying.
Speaker 3:Like this area and what a way you have to know you. Somebody knows somebody you know. I mean shouldn't friend, someone in front of their kids and then and then and then yeah, and then, uh, I think I'm not sure how old they were. They were young, though. Three and whatever. Three under 10. Both of them were under 10 and they had to just sit there with their dying mother. Yeah, while until paramedics.
Speaker 3:That's how dexter started yeah, watching his mother get fucking butchered yep, so yeah, I just remember that was a, that was a big case. It sticks with me, me like I'll.
Speaker 1:I'll remember that one if you say norwich murders it's literally three minutes away from you, right here, yeah yeah, just just where the body was found.
Speaker 3:Remember we talked about that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, fucking mohegan park yeah, I was kidding about what was the mohegan park and you're like, yeah, apartments.
Speaker 3:I'm like, oh, fuck, okay, we don't get usually like murders like that. It's more like bums found, yeah, dead in the back alley or something, right, yeah, fucking hooker or something. Yeah, you get a lot of stabbings, shootings, but not not like a murder. Yeah, that was wild.
Speaker 1:I do remember that yeah, that was a big that was. It was everywhere, remember, everywhere on social media. It was, yeah, like I said, somebody doesn't matter who you know or who knew what, somebody knew, that was a big that was. It was everywhere, remember, everywhere on social media. Yeah, and, like I said, somebody it doesn't matter who you know or who knew, somebody knew there was a connection somehow and someone was advocating a lot for to find out who her killer was, cause he made he made it.
Speaker 1:He was out for a while. Yeah, yeah, he was running around for a bit, yeah.
Speaker 3:So I'm going to go with that one. Jacqueline Worth Nice.
Speaker 1:Look up the story. Yeah, good question, nicole. That actually like we actually dove into that pretty good. I like it. Good question, all right. Next up we have Scarlet A Ooh, scarlet, scarlet Letter. Scarlet A what is she saying? Is she a freak or something? Is that what she's saying? Scarlet A All right, they say rapid fire questions for both dave and garrett. Oh okay, here we go. All right, I want to do yours first. Rapid fire, rapid fire. Okay, boom, boom, boom go. I like this. All right, favorite drink rapid rapid. Let's go relax.
Speaker 3:I gotta uh uh, peach green tea, peach green tea. Okay, texting or talking texting, I'm not a fucking psychopath. Ariel or jasmine oh dude, it's got to be Jasmine.
Speaker 5:Jasmine's the hottest fucking Disney princess guys, what are you?
Speaker 1:By far the hottest Disney princess Name one of the seven dwarfs.
Speaker 3:Oh Batchel.
Speaker 1:Batchel okay, kanye, or Drake. Drake, come on. Oh, I think that was insulting. Fucking Kanye, get that one, all right. When was the last time you cried?
Speaker 3:Oh, it's sobbing crying, or. I'm sorry this is rapid, but sobbing crying, or.
Speaker 4:Tears came from your face.
Speaker 3:Just tears. I don't know. I saw just tears coming down my face. It was a TikTok. Coming on your face Tears coming down my face it was I don't know it was a tiktok about, uh, I don't even know, it was sad. It was sad, it was something a little choked up. Yeah, it was like you know, they get you, they get you, it was something, it was something in the arms.
Speaker 3:No, it wasn't something like that, it was like uh, it was a story about a kid like a little boy. It was like the cancer fight you know what I mean.
Speaker 1:It was, it was horrible.
Speaker 3:All right it was, I'm gonna start crying. Yeah, exactly so it was, but I wasn't sobbing, it was just. You know, you get a tear, yeah, you get a little little lump sobbing. I couldn't even tell you when last time I sobbed, sobbed, cried uh, my dad 2017 understandable yeah, but yeah, cried probably three days ago same thing watching some stupid fucking tiktok.
Speaker 1:You know, the lip starts going and all that kind of stuff. All right, rapid. All right, here we go. Rapid. All right. Scale of one to ten. How good are you at skateboarding?
Speaker 3:Oh, I'll say six, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:You got skills. Yeah, oh yeah. I would bust my ass right now. I would get on a thing and just be like like stepping on a banana peel.
Speaker 3:I'll be like shout out worship skateboards North Connecticut.
Speaker 1:Oh, okay, they're going to pay us for that. No, all right, make a high-pitched sound, eep.
Speaker 3:Ha Ha, wait, that's not high-pitched.
Speaker 1:Ha, oh, there you go. Oh, he's falling out break a fucking.
Speaker 2:We have an opera over there.
Speaker 1:Oh, all right, here we go. We don't usually go political on the show, but we do have one here. Come on, if Joe Biden, if Joe Biden and Donald Trump were drowning and he had to save one, who?
Speaker 5:would it be Can?
Speaker 2:I just skip.
Speaker 1:No, you got to save one of them. Who are you saving? You're such a piece of shit. I actually. I actually have an answer to this one. It just came off the dome.
Speaker 3:No skip.
Speaker 1:No, you got to answer. No, no, no, you have to save one, garrett, answer it, joe, you would save Joe. Yeah, ok, I got you Joe, all right, save joe. Yeah, okay, I gotcha joe, all right, I, I'm gonna, I'm gonna answer this because this is, this is actually kind of funny. It's funny in my head. I don't know if it's gonna be funny out loud, but I would save donald trump. Of course you would. Sorry. Good, because no, listen for the for if. If for one reason only, it's because I would. If I saved joe biden, he would just turn back around and walk back into the fucking water. You ever see? See those videos where a deer is stuck in a fence and then they unhook it and it just runs in circles and runs right back into the fucking fence.
Speaker 1:That'll be Joe He'd be like. Where am I?
Speaker 3:It would be funny to see. Hi, hi, hi. How are you? Hurry up, babe. We're almost trying to.
Speaker 1:How are you Hurry up, babe Go, we're almost. We're trying to. How's your FaceTime talking? Do you want to say hi? Yeah, come say hi. Say hi on dad's microphone. Hello.
Speaker 3:That's my daughter Immortalized right there Immortalized, like her laugh. All right, yeah, I was going to say it would be funny to see Trump drown, though, just because of the noises that he would make.
Speaker 1:I'm the best drowner ever. Nobody drowns better than me Holding up his.
Speaker 3:It's okay. It's okay, I'm going to go out. I'm going to go out in style. Some say I couldn't drown.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but here I am. I'm drowning. Sleepy Joe couldn't drown like I can yeah.
Speaker 3:You set me up for that question, fuck you. Go next, go next.
Speaker 1:Well, it's a lot better. Well, I don't know, would it be funnier that or fucking like Joe? Couldn't even like fucking panic while he's fucking drowning.
Speaker 3:He'd be like whoa, he's just. Yeah, he'll just stare at you in the eyes, yeah, while he's going down right like what it's like.
Speaker 1:No joe walk towards the shore. I don't know like the like.
Speaker 3:I'm literally picturing the scene from titanic when the captain's going down, he's just walking around looking at the glass panels until the water comes in, all right, go, go.
Speaker 1:No political shit go oh, my god, all right. Oh, it's my turn. Right. Yeah, we got one more. Oh, what is your favorite food? Truck food, oh food truck food.
Speaker 3:Food truck food. All right, uh, we're gonna start off. Probably tacos, probably tacos.
Speaker 1:Uh, you, there's so many good food trucks that there are tacos there are well, I mean, I have yet to find a food truck that I didn't like.
Speaker 3:There's also a food truck pizza here. That's one of the best pizzas in this whole fucking area. Oh, the fucking Brick and Basil. Brick and Basil yeah, that's a good one. They have like a old school Italian stone stove hanging off the food truck. Oh, it's so good. Shout out Brick and Basil.
Speaker 1:That's the one where the food truck looks like a log cabin, oh yeah, and it's like a whole bunch of hippies that own it.
Speaker 3:It's cool vibes. There's weird knickknacks all over the place and shit like that Good spot.
Speaker 1:Yeah, if I went to a food truck festival, I would automatically beeline to the Mexican.
Speaker 3:Mexican food, mexican truck festival. I would automatically beeline to the to mexican, mexican, oh yeah, mexican. The giant, the shawarma that's not shawarma, but you know, I'm saying the fucking giant spickle of meat that they just cut right off.
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah, yeah this is gonna be my first summer where I'm not gonna be able to just devour every single fucking food truck. I can only probably have a bite. Yeah, but that's if you think about it.
Speaker 3:If you go with people, saves you money in the long run because you can just be like can only probably have a bite at each one. Yeah, but that's if you think about it. If you go with people, it saves you money in the long run because you can just be like, hey, I'll give you 20 bucks right now, just let me get like a bite off of everything, and then you just try little bites every now and again. You know what I mean.
Speaker 1:You fill you up fast, there's actually a food truck festival coming up soon.
Speaker 3:I'd love a good food truck. But yeah, I think I could say you know I'm a lie Like a look, a good Asian fusion food truck too, oh yeah. But but if you, if I had to pick one, taco food trucks are just, they're just so good. Yeah, you can't go. Rice and beans and panada, Everything, all of it, all, all of it all right, fucking throw it in my fucking face.
Speaker 1:Yeah, all right, all right, you got.
Speaker 3:You got questions for me all right, here we go, let me bring them up. Let me bring them up, all right. All right, here we go. All right, do you believe in love at first sight?
Speaker 1:no, no, no, I don't know. I believe in lust at first sight, sure okay, what is your ideal temperature outside?
Speaker 3:74 that's a good temperature. Uh, give or receive. Oh, I'm a giver, bro. I give james down there until he has to devil face. Yeah, he's looking up at you with those eyes at least five, at least five minimum say something cool. Well, this cool. Sorry, I went dark. I went dark real fast.
Speaker 1:He's the little train that could. The little train that could Alright say something cool. Oh god, I'm like how you doing that was not cool.
Speaker 3:That was kind of creepy.
Speaker 1:I like the fucking, especially if you see me, I, I got fucking white hair now and it's like you want to get eaten out. How you doing. I'm a giver. Run, ladies Run. Yeah, I don't know anything cool.
Speaker 3:Is a human life more valuable than a dog's? Oh, this is. Oh, yes, you gave me the fucking political one. I will say this Scarlet A is coming with the heat Because we are a criminal true crime-ish podcast.
Speaker 1:I will say it depends on the person and it depends on the dog. Yeah, and it depends on the dog.
Speaker 3:Yeah, there's a little fucking. You toed that line so well, I'll be honest. Can I say something on this? Of course, a human's life is more valuable, right In general. But I will tell you this I can watch a person being beheaded on the internet, yeah, and not feel a thing Right. Or cartel videos or people getting electrocuted it I I always. Or people getting massively hurt, I'll kind of like giggle, you don't know, like I'm not car with dark humor. Obviously, car accidents, yeah, car accidents, all that stuff.
Speaker 3:But the minute I see someone hit a dog on the internet or like hurt a dog, I'm like I'm up it in fucking arms and I don't know why that is because I truly believe that, like, if you're gonna pick a human over a an animal, yeah, but there's something about oh, speaking of a dog, oh, hi anya.
Speaker 1:Oh, you got kisses you hear that fucking. Yeah, she's like she's a giver too, but more All right.
Speaker 2:No, no, no, yeah nothing like bestiality jokes on the podcast.
Speaker 3:That's not going to get us kids. No, I will say. You know what I'm trying to say, though.
Speaker 1:I will say that I do value Anya's life more than, I would say, michael Ross.
Speaker 3:Of course, yeah, I mean, I would pick a random dog on the street and say that, but do I value anya's life over my?
Speaker 1:sons? No, of course not. Yeah, and I I would say almost almost every uh person. It's just for some reason I can watch if somebody held a gun to my head and be like, choose now your son or the dog, and I'm like, are you fucking stupid?
Speaker 3:yeah, it's not fucking shoot the dog, I don't give a fuck yeah, but if you would feel you would laugh if you saw a video of your son tripping and hitting his head, oh, and like falling down a flight of stairs, yeah, yeah, oh, that's hilarious. But if you saw the video of somebody smacking a dog, you'd be like what?
Speaker 5:the what. Yeah, they don't deserve it. It's interesting how that happens.
Speaker 3:They don't deserve it.
Speaker 1:It's just funny how the firm believer that dogs are raised to be bad.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, well, there's some aggressive dogs, there's still some aggressive dog breeds and there are personalities. But yeah, I agree, I agree 100%, because.
Speaker 1:I've had two pit bulls.
Speaker 3:I love pits.
Speaker 1:And greatest dogs ever. It's all how you raise them, anyway. Yeah, yeah, it depends on the person, depends on the dog, all right, all right next gryffindor slytherin ravenclaw hufflepuff.
Speaker 3:Didn't we just talk about this last episode? The harry potter yeah, oh no, maybe we maybe this was we.
Speaker 1:We blend that podcast, podcast episodes, and then just us being at work talking about nothing and then, not not to mention, the 30, 40 minutes of us just talking back and forth that get cut from the episode.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, yeah, we probably cut four hours out of this podcast.
Speaker 1:What's just going on right now. We just had like a 45-minute discussion about. I'm not even going to tell you, but yeah, it's, Don't say it All right, yeah, pick Harry Potter House. Gryffindor.
Speaker 3:Say it again Gryffindor, slytherin, ravenclaw, hufflepuff, slytherin, good boy Slytherin, all fucking day Everybody's like oh, gryffindor, I'll be a Gryffindor. No, you won't. You'll be a Hufflepuff or a Ravenclaw, what's up dude, I want to take her out. Thank you, thanks, bud.
Speaker 1:It's great having kids, isn't it?
Speaker 3:Yellow, yellow, yellow, yellow, yellow. Oh yeah, 100% Slytherin, Slytherin, yeah.
Speaker 1:And for anybody that says Gryffindor you're a follower.
Speaker 3:You're a follower. Main character energy too. You think you're the main character, right? Oh look at me.
Speaker 1:I'm Harry Potter. No, you're not.
Speaker 5:It's courage All right next.
Speaker 1:First celebrity crush Ooh, first celebrity crush Alyssa Milano.
Speaker 3:Alyssa Milano. Yep, oh, that's a good choice. That's a real good choice. Yeah, that's a real good choice. Yeah, and Mine was Jojo Jojo Siwa. No, no Hell no, no way before I was gonna say You're a little old for that. Do the research, jojo.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I know, jojo, she was a singer Way back in like yeah, wasn't she like A Disney kid too or something?
Speaker 5:I don't know, I'm not sure, I'm not sure.
Speaker 3:If I remember correctly, she's cute uh, favorite ice cream flavor? Oh uh, black raspberry. That's interesting kind of kind of old man ish. Black raspberry yeah, I used to scoop ice cream. That was like. That was my second job ever was michael's dairy in new london, okay, and a lot of old people would get the black raspberry, pistachio, black raspberry or the rocky road. That was the old people's shit right there, I swear to god, I swear to god, I'm not I.
Speaker 3:That's coming from experience of scooping ice cream. That was a black raspberry, pistachio and rocky road. Those were the sold by.
Speaker 1:Anyone over the age of like 60 wouldn't get maybe I like me, and my grandmother got it and I maybe coffee too coffee ice cream was a big old one.
Speaker 3:That was a big old person too. If you were the opposite sex for a day, like raspberry just fucking hits different, it's all right, it's okay. It's all right, it's all right. There's so many better flavors than that, but okay. If you were the opposite sex for a day, oh okay. What would the first thing you would do?
Speaker 1:I let all the homies hit can it be a series of things? Sure, I don't know all right rapid questions go all right.
Speaker 1:if I was a woman for the day, like if I woke up and boom, I'm a woman first thing I would do is I would get naked, I would lay a mirror on the floor and I would squat over the over the mirror. What the fuck are you? Where are you going? As I'm doing, jumping jacks while I'm shoving everything I possibly can into my orifice Yo, you're not leaving this in why You're not leaving. If you could be a woman for one day like you wouldn't.
Speaker 3:Yo, there's something there, there's some what you just said, what there's something there, what there's some sort of there there, something there, what there's some sort of there's.
Speaker 1:I'm just going no no, no, wait, wait, wait.
Speaker 3:We're not going to unpack that.
Speaker 1:No, what would you do? Any? Yeah, go ahead. What would you do? Go ahead. You're telling me, if you were a girl for a day, you wouldn't do any of that.
Speaker 3:No, I would definitely indulge.
Speaker 5:You've got to explore indulge, explore a little bit.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I definitely explore a little bit, but the fact that you're gonna get a mirror and just start shoving randomly sized things up your yeah, orifice. Okay, I don't know, there's something there that's a kink for you for sure.
Speaker 1:No, I'm just saying like I don't have one. It would be cool to have one and I would want to know what it would be like. Sure you know what I mean. You know because, like, as a woman, what does it feel like for a guy? You know?
Speaker 3:yeah, or at least you didn't say like, oh, I'm gonna let all the my friends hit, hit.
Speaker 1:No, that means I would have to see your shit.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I don't want to see your shit that's what cracks me up, yeah, yeah, no, we're like a dude, a guy who's like if I was a girl, I'd just be fucking like what, what?
Speaker 1:well, I mean, that's why, like, if you ask a woman if she was a guy for a day, what was she doing? She'd say the same thing. She would 100% be fucking swinging it like a fucking elephant trunk. Helicopter, yeah, helicopter, fucking jumping around, fucking whacking around everywhere, fucking sticking it in fucking cool whip. You know whatever? Apple pies, apple pies, yeah. So I don't know. Judge me, I don't care. No.
Speaker 3:I care, uh. No, I'm not judging, I'm just saying there's, there's something there, there's more to unpack there we're not going to deep into this this episode has
Speaker 1:already gone on and and for for uh, a current woman, not to be doing this on a daily basis?
Speaker 3:uh boggles my mind in a nerdy voice, or a cup of coffee in a nerdy oh my A nerdy boy.
Speaker 1:I don't how do you order? I just get a coffee, can I? Yeah, I'm excuse me. Are you Jewish, can?
Speaker 2:I please, can I?
Speaker 1:please. Oh, my back hurts, oh, my Atlanta, my shoulder is. I got a kink in my shoulder. Can I get a large coffee with cream and sugar? I don't know.
Speaker 4:I can't do any other voices. I can't do any voices.
Speaker 1:That's my voice. I actually pranked you one time at work. Hey, did you skip with that voice? I remember exactly. I'm likeed you one time at work. Yeah, you did. You scared me With that voice. I remember exactly.
Speaker 3:I'm like yes, can.
Speaker 1:I please speak to Garrett Corder, please. You're like, uh, this is, oh man, all right, anyway, all right, thank you very much, scarlett. That was actually fun. I like those All right. B, he's actually a dear friend of mine and well over 30 years, and he asks B do you still have a fat girl on your jock? Alright, so don't cancel us.
Speaker 1:So this is a reference from when we were back in high school. You ever hear the song Fat Girl from Eazy-E? Yeah, if you haven't heard it, look it up. It's actually fucking hilarious. So this is way back in, like the early 1990s, 90, 91 time, and we entered the high school talent show and it was me, it was MrB, it was his brother, who was also a good friend of mine, and another kid. So Mr B was the beatboxer hype man, you know, and then B was the beatboxer hype man, you know, and then his brother was the rapper. He was easy. The other kid was like the DJ and I played the role of the fat girl.
Speaker 1:I had to dress, I had to fuck it. I was like you know, I played it to the max. I had the hair, the fucking, everything. I had to strut in the fucking stage. I was, I was fucking killing it. Anyway, it was hilarious, believe it or not, back in 1990, when you do a song called Fat Girl on my Jock, you win first place in a talent show. Wow, imagine if you did that in today's no fucking shot, they wouldn't even let you go up there. They would be like no, you're not doing that fucking song Congratulations on first place of the talent show, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was a good old days, you know, people didn't get hurt, it was fun.
Speaker 3:It was.
Speaker 1:That's crazy that fat girl on my jock won first place at the school talent show and I will have to say, well, they won because of you. I was an amazing fat girl.
Speaker 3:I was an amazing fat girl.
Speaker 5:It brought the. You know where it's like fucking shit.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's funny. Listen to the song. Look it up on youtube I gotta hear it again. It's been a long time. Yeah, all right. Finally, final question uh, mail call's been going on for like fucking I was gonna say an hour and a half yeah, and then if you include the cuts, yeah all right. Finally, we have honey red, honey, honey Red. Honey Red, honey Red. I try to think of where these people come up with their names Honey Red, I don't know. Honey.
Speaker 3:Red, remember, we're asking people to come up with funny names, yeah.
Speaker 1:Come up with new ones. Yeah, so we've had Don't Call Me Shirley, that was a funny one Scarlet A, oh, scarlet Letter, honey red I don't know, I'll have to look that up, but I appreciate the originality. Anyways, they ask what smell? Do you like to keep smelling, despite the fact that it doesn't smell very good?
Speaker 3:I mean my own fart, Just you know. That's the first one, yeah, but I think that's everybody I also love.
Speaker 1:I think everybody can pretty much tolerate their own farts.
Speaker 5:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Sometimes, yeah, yeah, sometimes, sometimes they're a little brutal. I will say from one of our last shows is that I cannot tolerate your farts.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, yeah, Well, it depends If it's a bacon egg and cheese.
Speaker 1:That was fucking rough.
Speaker 3:If it's a bacon, egg and cheese going down.
Speaker 1:I don't even like it. That was fucking rough All right, go on.
Speaker 3:I don't even like it that was fucking rough.
Speaker 1:All right, go on.
Speaker 3:So yeah, obviously my own fart. It's always Everybody likes it. Deep down, there's some weird thing going on, yeah, yeah, where everybody likes their own fart.
Speaker 1:Smelling between your toes after a basketball game.
Speaker 3:BO in general.
Speaker 1:Did you, yeah, you like the smell of BO. No.
Speaker 3:Like if we play basketball if we play basketball for a long like I'm sweating my balls off gym working out balls no, no I. Oh, no, no, no, I. But like you know, I mean you know how you lift up and you, yeah, yeah, you get that. That's like yeah, and you get, that must you keep coming back for another one do I smell, you keep checking yourself.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you smell go fucking shower yeah there is something.
Speaker 3:There is something. Uh, you know what I mean that you keep coming back to yeah.
Speaker 1:You've never done a smell. Check on your nuts.
Speaker 3:No, I know, if my balls are sweaty, I'll just shower. I'm not sticking my hand down there. You've never done a sniff test. Of course people have done it, but I don't do it that often.
Speaker 1:If you're on a hot date you're like excuse me, I've got to run to the bathroom real quick. Make sure everything's kosher down there.
Speaker 3:You're in the sink with hand soap.
Speaker 1:Bathroom hand soap.
Speaker 3:With the gel.
Speaker 1:Don't judge. A lot of you have done that. So, yeah, anyway, all right. What's yours? All right, mine would be. I'm going to preface this with. Mine would be. I'm going to preface this with. I'm a huge lover of asparagus. I love asparagus. It's probably one of my favorite vegetables. You like the asparagus pea? The asparagus pea, bro. There is something hypnotic. You're getting high off of that shit. There is something hypnotic about asparagus pea and I dare anyone to challenge the fact that it does have a very compelling smell.
Speaker 3:Another person's asparagus pee is disgusting, though.
Speaker 1:Well, same thing as a fart. Yeah, I will eat asparagus just because I miss the smell of asparagus pee. All right, all right, good. Thank you everyone for sending in your questions Like rapid fire.
Speaker 3:I wasn't really rapid fire.
Speaker 1:I took like fucking 27 minutes.
Speaker 3:But appreciate the question yeah.
Speaker 1:Actually that was a very fun. That was a very fun mail call. Yeah, I like that.
Speaker 3:All right. Well, let's go to Florida then.
Speaker 5:What in the fuck is going on in Florida?
Speaker 3:Local 10 News Shoot me then Shoot me then. Miami men jailed after Grindr threesome goes wrong. A pair of Miami men offered a man money for sex after messaging him on the app Grindr, but things did not go as planned. After they met up, the pair wanted their money back and they used a toy gun to make their point, police said. According to the arrest reports, the suspects Yandri Mora Martinez and Ludwig Duvon Ramirez that's an interesting one Then called the police themselves and claimed to be victims of a home invasion robbery.
Speaker 3:Miami police, miami police instead arrested them Monday morning at their home in the 2700 block of Northwest 15th Street. Police said the victim told them that he had been speaking with one of the men on Grindr, who offered him $160 to have sex with both of them on Sunday night A buck sixty, grindr's kind of wild. The victim agreed, police said, and after going to their home and began having sex with them, things started to go wrong. According to the reports, the victim said Ramirez, 26, had erectile dysfunction, mm, and the threesome abruptly ended. Maybe he had stage fright yeah, that's the first threesome, or?
Speaker 1:maybe they didn't do a fucking smell check and they're fucking nuts.
Speaker 3:They didn't hit the hand soap bathroom. Yeah, the bathroom hand soap. Police said Mora Martinez, 25, then demanded his $80 deposit back. He put a deposit down.
Speaker 1:Whoa, he paid $80 up front, up front, and then you get the other $80.
Speaker 3:You get the $80 after, after I mean smart guy. The report states. An argument ensued and then Mora Martinez pulled a toy revolver, put it to the victim's head and told him in Spanish you're not going anywhere, I want my money, I'm not giving you anything. The report said so kidnapping, kidnap, even though it's a fake gun, it's still it's still, it's still.
Speaker 1:You're using it and trying to scare him.
Speaker 3:Yeah, as intimidation. Yep, and he didn't know if it was real or not. Right, right, I'm not giving you anything. The report says.
Speaker 1:The victim replied shoot me then that's tough talk for somebody who can't get their dick up police said more I'd pay the money just to fucking get out of that situation. I know you're 180 I gotta go.
Speaker 3:Yeah, don't ever repeat this. Police said mora martinez began to strike the victim and the pair pinned him down and called police. But he, along with ramirez. Why did you call police? What do you think was gonna happen to this? Uh, but he, along with ramirez, would end up being call police. What do you think was going to happen to this? But he, along with Ramirez, would end up being taken to jail on charges of false imprisonment with a deadly weapon and battery. The victim was able to provide proof of the conversations on Grindr and a Zillow transaction On Zillow no Zillow, okay. The arrest report states Ramirez, a Colombian national, remained held in Turner Guilford Knight Correctional Center on an immigration and customs enforcement hold and a $2,000 bond. According to jail records, mora Martinez, a Cuban national, remained at TGK on the same $2,000 bond, but with no immigration hold.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because? Is that still a thing? Like Cubans, if you make it to the shore you're automatically. I like, if you make it to the shore you're automatically.
Speaker 3:I'm not sure, like I'm not sure that journey's kind of crazy, though. You ever seen those fucking boats? Yeah, they're swinging out by the time they get there.
Speaker 1:The things like capsize. They're just holding on to the end. There's only like a tire left. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's wild, but I'm pretty sure. I'm pretty sure that's still in effect. Like you, it might be for cubans, specifically, like if you make it to the shore, you earned your free pass, dude my miami talk about good food trucks and spanish food.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, like little havana in miami, get one of those like cuban coffees. That's basically cocaine in a fucking cup, well, even a little man in uh fucking new york yeah good food, yeah, good food yeah.
Speaker 1:So future reference you cannot hold somebody against their will, even with a toy gun, even with a toy gun and also don't pay for 160 three threesomes on Grindr.
Speaker 3:Yeah, because you never know who's going to show up.
Speaker 1:That's what I mean. I mean $160 for sex. That's automatically like a sketch, that's a sketch.
Speaker 3:It's not, though, because Grindr they'll just have, they just want to fuck they just meet up anywhere they I mean he's already, he wants to do it anyway. It's not like a paid escort at that point.
Speaker 1:And I do have to say you might as well make some money on it too. I do want to say, in defense of of the gentleman that was assaulted to keep an erection in an uncomfortable situation who know, you know, maybe there was a smell that came across, maybe there was something that happened. You know what I mean.
Speaker 3:Let alone the thought of two random people that have no clue who they are.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean like maybe he got stage fright. You know what I mean yeah.
Speaker 3:You can't blame the guy. And especially coming from two other dudes who know the pressures of that Right that you got to perform Like sometimes it's an actual like chore to like keep.
Speaker 1:You know, like you you have to like put your 100 undivided right. Yeah, like you gotta like put your mind like elsewhere and be like yeah, okay, all right, let's go yeah, you can't blame the guy.
Speaker 3:Yeah, come on, come in for other fellow dudes yeah, there's three dudes.
Speaker 1:Shit happens, yeah, you know you should know, they should know that at all, like sometimes you just need you need a prime environment to like keep the you know perform right I'm with you, I'm with you Like, if you're with your wife and like the fucking kids are banging on the fucking door, I want my fucking pancakes.
Speaker 3:There's no way.
Speaker 1:You know it's like oh fuck Well there goes that.
Speaker 3:Sorry, nothing takes you out of the mood. Yeah, two children? Yeah, I mean coming from experience.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know, it's just happens. We're just saying that, whether you're in a heterosexual relationship or a homosexual relationship, threesomes are a bad idea. Threesomes are a bad idea and sometimes it's hard to keep your dick hard as the fantasy.
Speaker 3:everybody thinks it's this big wonderful thing it's actually confusing. There's too much.
Speaker 5:Too much going on.
Speaker 3:As somebody said, it's like trying to watch two movies at the same time that you both want to watch. You want to watch both.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, you both want you both want to like you want to watch, yeah, yeah, you just you're trying to right like I've. I've had a couple of experiences and it's it's actually very like I don't know. Nine times out of ten, when you're, when you're a threesome, you're there with your so your significant other, and then there's a third in your mind you're like, oh, I'm probably never gonna get this opportunity again, so I'm going after the fucking other. But you have to keep in mind your significant other is like it's too much.
Speaker 3:It's too much pressure If it's three friends. Oh, yeah, I mean yeah, whatever.
Speaker 1:That's happened too.
Speaker 3:It's like whatever Significant other. Yeah, no, you gotta worry about it.
Speaker 1:If you show too much attention, it's like oh, you fucking like her. You like her now. Yeah, Fuck you, motherfucker.
Speaker 3:It's not worth it. Not worth it, it is fun but yeah, it's not worth it.
Speaker 1:Not worth it, Criminal AF. We'll be back after this quick break.
Speaker 2:Do you like scary movies? If your answer is yes, then you need to check out my show, fright Flick FMK. My name is Jay and, along with my co-host, gentleman Jack, I watch and discuss horror movies and tell you what I think about them. New or old, mainstream or underground, no horror flick is safe from my warped opinion. So go check out Fright Flick FMK now. We are on all major podcast platforms and YouTube Also. Be sure to follow the show on all major social media sites. But be warned, we are not your mama's podcast, and this promo will be the longest amount of time you'll hear me talk without swearing or cracking an offensive joke. Now go grab your favorite drink, pull up a chair and give us a listen now back to criminal af.
Speaker 1:All right, let's get this fucking good show going. All right. So we're going to jump right into this story about an entire family who was murdered on their small bavarian farm back in March of 1922. No one has ever been caught, charged or convicted for this crime, but we do have our suspicions. So roll down the windows in your car and crank up the volume so all the other moms in the school pickup line know that it's time to fuck this episode in the mouth.
Speaker 3:Let the moms in the pickup line know it's time to fuck.
Speaker 1:Hello Mrs Johnson. How is Katie today? Oh, I'm sorry, Let me turn down my fucking volume All right, here we go.
Speaker 3:I'm actually picturing a parent pickup line.
Speaker 1:Yeah and just our voices, just hearing our voices.
Speaker 2:And then she came, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he fucked his mother's brain. Yeah, yeah, uh, that was a wild one. All right, let's paint a picture, garrett, okay, okay, it's 1922, okay, oh, we're in a beautiful bavarian region of germany oh, dance, party, dance party about 40 miles north of munich somebody called a Krakenwagen.
Speaker 3:It's ambulance in German.
Speaker 1:This land is rich with history Pristine countryside, medieval castles, beautiful, magnificent palaces, and, you know, there's some small villages rooted in their traditional ways of life. The pores, yeah, people of poverty, oh yeah, that's what you're supposed. The pores, yeah, people of poverty oh yeah, that's what you're supposed to say. Yeah, now, this is a region of hardworking people tilling the soil to sustain an honest way of life. Okay, this region was also the birthplace of the Nazi party. I just want to throw that out there, all right, so just outside Listen, you know, it's a blemish on history. Yeah, so just outside the hamlet of Kaifek, you would find a small Hinterkaifek farmstead. Hinter Hinter means behind, so behind Kaifek. There now you know some fucking German.
Speaker 3:The language actually makes sense, yeah, so where else you break it down?
Speaker 1:Where else can you find such scholastic and intellectual fucking lessons except here on Criminal AF? So now you know German, all right. Hinterkaifek farm, farm, said, was built around 1863 and as of 1922, was owned by a widowed 35 year old woman named victoria gabriel, whose husband, carl gabriel, was killed in world war one. Along with victoria on the farm was her seven-year-old daughter, cecilia, known as silly, her two-year-old daughter, cecilia, known as Silly, her two-year-old son, joseph, and Victoria's parents, 63-year-old Andreas Gruber and his wife, also named Cecilia, at age 72. Interesting names, yeah.
Speaker 3:They don't sound very German to me. Cecilia, cecilia, yes, but Joseph. Well, it's J-O-S-E-F. Oh, it's like yeah, yeah, yeah, joseph, joseph.
Speaker 1:Well, it's J-O-S-E-F. Oh, it's like Joseph, joseph Joseph.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 5:And Victoria's.
Speaker 1:And Gruber. Gruber is 100% odd and Victoria's V-I-K-T-O-R-I-A.
Speaker 3:Okay, I forgot German. You just throw a K in there somewhere and it's German, or an S-C-H at the end of something.
Speaker 1:Yeah, ish, alright, an S-C-H at the end of something S-C-H. Yeah, ish, ish, all right. Also, living on this farmstead was their live-in, maid Cressen's Rager.
Speaker 3:Rager, all right.
Speaker 1:In the weeks and months leading up to the end of March of 1922, several odd occurrences happened in and around the farmstead. Strange noises and what seemed to be loud footsteps in the attic led crescent's raga. The groovers made for over a year, to abruptly quit in september of 1921, believing that the house is to be haunted. In march of 1922, andreas discovered a newspaper from munich on his property. Now, mind you, this is 40 miles away, it's 1922. It's not like you just hop in your fucking yeah, or even mail Even mail a newspaper Mail call.
Speaker 1:So, thinking that this mail was mixed up with the neighbors, he soon learned that no one along the mail route subscribed to this newspaper. So why did this newspaper from Munich just happen to be on the property? Days later, Andreas discovered footprints in the snow coming from the forest leading right up to the doorway to the house. That's terrifying. But there were no tracks leading away. Ooh, do we have another wall liver here? Another wall liver? Hmm, A key to the house was also found to be missing. Okay Now, one night in March, the family could allegedly hear footsteps walking in the attic. When Andreas searched the area, no one could be found. Where were these footsteps coming from? Andreas would tell his neighbors of these strange happenings and they would encourage him to speak to the police. But Andreas never did. He was like I'll fucking handle it.
Speaker 3:Typical 1920s dad.
Speaker 1:Yep. Another strange incident was reported by a school friend of the younger silly stating that her mother, victoria, had fled the farm the night of Thursday March 30th after a violent argument with her parents. But she was located hours later hiding in the forest. Nobody knows why. That's interesting. On March 31st the Grubers welcomed their new maid, maria Baumgartner, and I had read that Maria was a sister of their previous maid, crescent Draga, but I couldn't corroborate that, so I don't know where Maria Baumgartner came from. But anyways, she's the new maid as of March 31st. All was quiet on the Hinterkaifeck farmstead over the weekend of March 31st 1922. A couple of coffee salesmen, hans and Eduard Shiskarski, arrived and knocked on the door to take the gruber's weekly order, but nobody answered. They knocked on the windows of the house. They walked around the farm. You know, hello, hello, anybody there? Where's the dance party?
Speaker 3:No, dance party.
Speaker 1:But nobody came out. Nobody answered them, so they're like, well, I guess they're not ordering coffee this week, and they left. A couple of hours later, two hunters stopped by to purchase items from the farm, but they too found nobody. The postman came by and when he didn't see or hear anyone, including the family's dog who would usually bark incessantly, he left the mail and newspapers on the windowsill in plain sight. Another neighbor stated that they witnessed smoke coming from the chimney of the house on that Saturday and said there was light coming from the home showing that there were people there. So nobody was really concerned when they hadn't seen the family in a couple of days, you know, because it was just hanging out. It was reported that they often just like to be left alone. You know, just leave us alone.
Speaker 1:It wasn't until Sunday, when the family didn't attend church, the eyebrows began to raise. They never miss church, yeah, like ever. Then on monday, april 3rd and tuesday, april 4th, little silly didn't attend school. On the morning of april 4th a mechanic by the name of albert hoffner came by to do some work on the farm equipment. He stayed about four hours and reported that he didn't see or hear anything other than the farm animals and a dog barking inside the barn. Later that day around 3 pm next door neighbor Lorenz Schlittenbommer, who's going to be a popular name here later on in the story he sent his 16-year-old son. He sent his 16-year-old son, johan, along with his stepson Joseph, age nine, to the Hinterkaifeck farmstead to see if they could find the whereabouts of the family. You know he's a concerned neighbor.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I was going to say in today's world, if my family all passed away in this house, let alone my parents, would obviously figure something out, Right? But if we had no connection outside and it was up to our neighbors to find if we're still alive, we wouldn't be found for months, months, months, months. I'm telling you I have who talks to their neighbors nowadays.
Speaker 1:I live in a townhouse. Other than the occasional hello, I really don't speak to any of my neighbors and if I hadn't seen him in like a week, I wouldn't even question it.
Speaker 3:It's different. Back then, though, yeah, you relied on your neighbor a little bit more, I think.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know, like nowadays if somebody knocked on my door, I'm like what?
Speaker 3:the fuck are you doing? I'm talking to the ring camera what?
Speaker 1:Hello, I'm hiding behind the couch, that's true, I'm like I'm no one at the farm. So Schlittenbauer then recruited fellow neighbors Michael Pohl and Jacob Siegel to help investigate further. Michael and Jacob reluctantly agreed because they're like I don't really want to go there, but whatever. Yeah, the three men approached the barn first. They broke open the lock and pushed the heavy wood door open and were instantly hit with a horrific sight and smell. Just inside the doorway lay four bodies, three of which were partially covered with hay in an apparent attempt to hide the bodies. The four victims were Andreas Gruber, his wife Cecilia, their Victoria and seven-year-old Silly.
Speaker 1:Schlittenbauer realized that there were two other people missing two-year-old Joseph and the Gruber's new maid who had just got there on March 31st, Maria Baumgartner. So Schlittenbauer raced to the house and entered the home without pause. Keep that in mind. Inside the home were the bodies of Maria lying lying in her bed and young joseph found brutalized inside his bassinet. What the fuck? Authorities were contacted and the investigation into the murders of hinter kaifeck was led by inspector george reingruber. Why is german like yeah, it sounds so aggressive.
Speaker 1:It's such an aggressive language, such an aggressive language.
Speaker 3:Krakenwagen.
Speaker 1:This would prove to be a very daunting task, as the crime scene was disturbed, the bodies had been moved and it appeared that the killer stayed on the property for at least a day or a number of days after the killings. He was making a fire, yeah.
Speaker 3:He was hanging out he was sitting down in their chairs, chilling, chilling Cup of tea.
Speaker 1:Who sat in my chair, who ate my porridge? Alright, not only that, but all of the farm animals had been fed and tended to.
Speaker 3:As well as the. This goes back to the dog question. Yeah, the guy cared more about the farm animals than a family of fucking.
Speaker 1:A two-year-old boy murdering his fucking bassinet. All right, he also stayed inside the house using the kitchen to prepare food. Something even more strange did stand out inside the home. The murders were ruled to have occurred on the previous Friday, March 31st, the last day anyone saw the family alive. Yet the page on the single-date calendar in the kitchen was ripped off to the date of April 2nd, meaning someone tore off the pages for March 31st and April 1st. What a psychopath.
Speaker 1:The motive of the crime was first suspected to be robbery. The motive of the crime was first suspected to be robbery and the police interrogated traveling craftsmen, vagrants and several inhabitants from their village and beyond. Detectives soon abandoned the burglary theory when a large amount of money was found laying out in the house. Now, a search of the hayloft where an iron band had been found, police discovered evidence that someone had been living there. Haystacks had been left behind and whoever had been there had removed roof tiles, presumably in order to keep a lookout for people coming by. There was a carpet laid out so their footsteps would be muffled if someone should come by unexpectedly. Ropes had been attached to various beams in the barn and it was believed that this was done so the killer could lower himself quickly to the ground and make an escape should anyone enter the barn.
Speaker 1:Further evidence that someone had been living in the barn was supported by the fact that someone had defecated in the hayloft numerous times, as well as there being remains of rinds of smoked meat found near the lookout spot. This is where Andreas Gruber's pocket knife was also later found in the loft. Authorities believe that the victims have been lured to the barn by restlessness in the stable, resulting in noises from the animals. They're like oh, what's going on out there? Let me go take a look. Initial and subsequent searches of the house failed to turn up the murder weapon. Go take a look. Initial and subsequent searches of the house failed to turn up the murder weapon believed to be a matic, which is an agricultural tool similar to a pickaxe oh, several must have been a crazy scene then.
Speaker 3:Yeah, being bludgeoned with a matic.
Speaker 1:Yeah, now, several neighbors had told police that andreas always used a matic and kept it with him at all times. It was a multi-purpose tool. You can use it to hoe the soil, you can use it to whatever. And he actually modified this matic and kept it with him at all times. It was a multi-purpose tool. You can use it to hoe the soil, you can use it to whatever. And he actually modified this matic to include a protruding eight millimeter threaded screw in the handle and this was used to puncture holes and heads of animals. Uh, andreas was sending off to slaughter, as it was a quick and and easy way to kill the farm animals. Damn so, yeah, just whack them over the head with the mattock, with the protruding screw, and right into their fucking brain. Now, the mattock was not found until a year later, when Hinterkaifeck was scheduled for demolition. The mattock was found in a hidden crawl space in the ceiling of the kitchen. So on April 5th 1922, the autopsies of the family members were performed inside the barn of the farmstead apparently didn't have a coroner's office or anything a morgue.
Speaker 1:Andreas gruber, whose injuries were much different from the rest of the victims, had the right half of his face smashed in, cheek bones, protruding shredded flesh, and his face was caked with blood. His death was ruled to be from a fall onto it on the tip of a heavy pickaxe which is found in the feeding trough. The pickaxe tore through his carotid artery, causing him to bleed to death in a very short amount of time. His wife Cecilia was found with severe bruising around her right eye and eight puncture holes in the right side of her skull. So somebody hit her with the with the bolt, the screw of the matic.
Speaker 1:He punctured eight times on the side of her head their daughter, 35-year-old Victoria. Her skull was found to have nine puncture holes on the right side of her head. The right side of her face was smashed in by a blunt force object and a small round injury to the top of the head caused by a pointedy object. I don't know. I don't know what that tool would be, but I don't know if that's different than the nine puncture holes. I don't know. Victoria also showed signs of being strangled prior to being bludgeoned in the head.
Speaker 3:Isn't that interesting. That both the females were strangled Tells you something about the, about the assailant, but the assailant Okay.
Speaker 1:Do you have any ideas yet? Don't say. Don't say if you do. Out of all the people I mentioned so far, I had to it has to be a man.
Speaker 1:Okay, all right, I'll leave it at that. Now, this is unproven, we don't know, yeah, but just based on crosswise blows to the head. So somebody was just swinging Whop whop, whop, whop, with the death blow being a single four centimeter hole at the top of her skull. Boom, straight down. Two-year-old Joseph was killed by a single powerful blow to his skull. Two-year-old boy had his skull bashed in, crushed like a fucking pancake in his bassinet. And finally, and the most chilling, was seven-year-old Silly. She was found with her jaw shattered in numerous places caused by the iron band, which is found up in the loft. She suffered several blows to the head from a blunt object and a single piercing injury into the top of her skull. Her throat was also slashed, exposing a wide, gaping transverse wound across her neck, which was later learned to be caused by Andreas Gruber's pocket knife, which they found up in the loft. She was found naked from the waist down and appeared to possibly have been raped, or at least attempted to be raped.
Speaker 3:That's fucking.
Speaker 1:I guess they didn't have rape kits back in 1922.
Speaker 3:The seven-year-old girl dude you, piece of shit, yep, you, real piece of shit.
Speaker 1:Like yeah, all of these injuries to a seven-year-old girl were brutal and overkill, right, but this was not the worst part of her death. Silly was found with large clumps of her own hair intertwined in her hands. She was believed to have been alive for several hours as she was tortured and possibly raped, ripping the hair out of her head in the process. Oh man, so who were the Grubers, and why would anyone want to annihilate this family from the face of the earth? So let's first take a look at the history of Hinterkaifeck.
Speaker 1:The Gabriel Gruber family was not the original owner of the farmstead. It was built and owned by the Assam family and was passed down to Joseph Assam when he married a local woman named Cecilia in 1877. They just keep passing that name down. Joseph and Cecilia had four children, but only two would live to adulthood. Joseph passed away in 1885. The now 35-year-old Cecilia was given the title and ownership of Hinterkaifeck and soon began dating a 27-year-old farmhand named you guessed it Andreas Gruber Gotcha. The two were married a year later, in 1886. Upon their marriage, andreas, by right, was given 50% ownership of Hinterkaifeck Not bad for a farmhand. He now owned one of the biggest and most profitable farms in Bavaria. So now Andreas and Cecilia.
Speaker 3:He was like the hot stable boy.
Speaker 1:That was working there. Oh yeah, Cecilia's in the kitchen.
Speaker 3:I've been a widow for too long.
Speaker 5:I've been a widow for three days.
Speaker 3:It's the pool boy story, basically, and now he's sitting on half of the ownership.
Speaker 1:She's rocking in a chair on the porch and she's watching this sweaty, young, muscular 27 year old shoveling cow shit and she's like oh.
Speaker 5:I gotta get me some of that?
Speaker 1:Give me a piece of that. So Andreas, shoveling cow shit yep, she's like, oh, I gotta get me some of that. Give me a piece of that. Yeah. So andreas and cecilia would go on to have three children, but two would die in adolescence. I mean, typical 1800 shit, though a little bit more on that. Hold on the surviving child. Their firstborn was named victoria. Cecilia's other children from her first marriage would go on to move away from hinterkaifeck, leaving only victoria with her parents. Basically, back then, if you remarried, I guess your previous children no longer fucking married anymore, so they get no inheritance.
Speaker 1:Now, victoria would grow up to be considered a very beautiful woman, personable, polite and seemed to have everything going for her. She was very devout in her faith, often going to church several times a week, but you never know what's occurring behind closed doors, garrett, no, you don't. Especially those people. Yeah. So even though Victoria exemplified a young woman who seemed to have the world at her fingertips, her father, andreas, was a real fucking shitbag. He was considered abrasive, rude, with an extremely short temper, who was possessive over his wife and his daughter, often beating them and forbidding them to see or speak to any other people unless it was at church by the time Victoria was 16,. Andreas was raping his daughter almost on a daily basis, and this abuse went on for years.
Speaker 1:Now. We talked a little earlier about Andreas and Cecilia having three children, and two of them had died in their youth. Well, andreas, as we've stated, was an abusive, evil waste of fucking skin, the type of guy whose mother should have swallowed instead of giving birth to this fucking mouth breather. But he was well known around Kaifeng for his extremely aggressive and brutal treatment that his that he showed his wife, his children and, you know, sometimes neighbors. He was a guy who fought his neighbors.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So basically, when the family went missing, nobody really cared because they're like, yeah, fuck him. Yeah, if Andreas was even slightly inconvenienced, he was quick to attack people with dangerous objects such as a scythe, a pitchfork, a shotgun, and he was most abusive to his children. In addition to beating them almost on a daily basis, he would lock his children outside of the house or in the cold cellar for many days during the winter, which ultimately and allegedly led to the death of his daughter, sophie. What a piece of shit. Yeah, I couldn't find any information on the third child or how they died, but I would say it's safe to assume that the fucking dick beater here had something to do with it. Now let's fast forward to 1914 and Victoria now 27, marries a man named Carl Gabriel, who was 26 at the time. Now, this marriage wasn't formed out of a product of love, but rather opportunity, all right. So Carl Gabriel's family they weren't very well off, you know it's kind of like you want to marry into a family of privilege, you know.
Speaker 3:So, even though you know they're farmers, whatever the home, I mean the homestead had to have been doing well, oh it's extremely lucrative.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so, yeah. So this was a marriage of opportunity. Now, despite Andreas Gruber's extremely rough exterior and porous appearance, the Gruber's, as we said, were extremely well off. They're like one of the richest families in the area. Now, carl gabriel's family knew this and they pushed for the marriage between carl and victoria and because victoria was andreas and cecilia's only surviving child, hinter kaifect, would be passed on to victoria and carl upon their marriage. So they went off and got hitched. So now Carl Gabriel is now 50% owner of Hinterkaffeck, but not much has changed after marriage other than the ownership, because Andreas and Cecilia still lived on the farm.
Speaker 4:Yeah we're not moving out.
Speaker 1:So Andreas still ruled the roost with an iron fist and he still continued to rape Victoria and beat Cecilia and fucking just be an overall fucking piece of shit. Now, if you're Carl Gabriel, you're married into this family. You don't really love the person you're with, you're just like whatever. My parents forced me to do this because of money, whatever. Living on a farm with someone like Andreas Gruber can quickly take its toll and, regardless if you've been handed the keys to a very profitable farm, life can be extremely miserable. Because of this strange and awkward dynamic, carl and Victoria's marriage very quickly began to fall apart. About four months after getting married, carl Gabriel enlisted in the army, most likely as a way to get away from this crazy and fucking maniacal Andres Gruber who by now, was making Carl's life a living hell. But this escape tactic would come to backfire. It was the beginning of World War I and Carl was sent into battle. Months later, victoria receives a letter that Carl had been killed in battle on December 12, 1914.
Speaker 3:Just along with every other German man at that time. So many people died.
Speaker 1:Now, to make matters worse, victoria was also pregnant. Oh, she was with child. So in 1915, victoria gives birth to a daughter. She named Cecilia after her mother, but she was affectionately known as Silly. Now, not long after the birth of Silly, a maid walked in on Andreas, raping Victoria. She ran out of the house and immediately went to the police. I guess incest is a very bad thing, yeah, even in 1922.
Speaker 1:Police arrived at Hinterkaifeck and they arrested Andreas for incest, but they also arrested Victoria for the same charge. Wow, nothing like adding more emotional damage to this poor woman. Wait, could the baby be his? Let's continue reading. Andreas was convicted of the incest and was sentenced to a year in jail. That's it.
Speaker 1:And Victoria was convicted and sentenced to serve. One month, when Victoria was released from prison, she began talking with their wealthy neighbor, lorenz Schlittenbauer Schlittenbauer, we remember him right, yes, he's the same Schlittenbauer who discovered the bodies. Now, over time, victoria had proposed that she and Schlittenbauer Begin a relationship. One setback Schlittenbauer is married. He claims he never had an extramarital affair With Victoria. And the purpose for all this? Victoria? She wanted to find herself another husband Before her father was released from prison, where he would continue to fucking rape Victoria.
Speaker 1:This plan didn't work out so well, but this is the early 1900s. If at first you don't succeed, just wait for someone to die at the old age of 40. The old age of 40. Because what happened was Lorenz Schlittenbauer's wife. She died, and not long after her passing, Schlittenbauer and Victoria begin bopping and booping. That means fucking. They were fucking, get it.
Speaker 1:After a while, lorenz is like damn, victoria can clap, so he wants to propose to her. Right, so, but this union would be a huge deal for lorenz for sure. So not only does victoria have that good good uh, but he'll also get half of hinter kaifek because she still owns it which adjoins his property, essentially doubling more than doubling his land ownership compound at this point, fuck yeah. And we all know, back in those days, land was, that was everything. Yeah, land did all the talking, all right. So schlittenbauer goes to hinterkaifeck to ask andreas for his daughter's hand in marriage. But there is a stipulation. Now it's well known that andreas likes to his daughter, so andreas has to agree to stop raping victoria, to which and responds We'll see. Jesus Christ, fuck, no shame in his fucking game.
Speaker 3:What in the country backwoods is going on?
Speaker 1:Like. The more the story continues, the more I'm glad he's dead. Like, fuck him, he's just a fucking dirtbag, all right. So while these marriage discussions were ongoing, the plot thickens. Victoria announces surprise, I'm pregnant again. It could be anybody at this point, though, yeah.
Speaker 1:So andreas and lorenz point at each other like the spider-man meme. They're like george, it's yours, it's yours, it's not mine. But uh, victoria claims that the baby is schlittenbauer's, but he's not quite sold on that notion. After all, andreas can't keep his peen out of his daughter's vagine. So, uh, lorenz denies paternity of the baby, and this results in a huge confrontation between Andreas and Lorenz, like huge, like to blows kind of shit. Andreas demands that Lorenz pay him child support payments, not Victoria Pay him child support payments. Lorenz basically says that he's not going to accept paternity of the child unless Andreas agrees to stop molesting his daughter and to give him Stop, stop doing it. Yes, just stop fucking your daughter, let me marry her. Andreas refuses Nope, nope, I'm going to keep fucking my daughter. Nope, fuck you. Lorenz had enough, I'm sick of this, I'm done. He went to authorities to report that Andreas was the father of his daughter's baby and he was again arrested for incest. He was only in jail for about two weeks, and then Schlittenbauer took back the claim.
Speaker 3:There's some neighbor feud going on, yeah.
Speaker 1:So Andreas was released after two weeks and basically what was learned is that the Gruber Gabriel family family offered to pay schlittenbauer two thousand dollars to drop the charges. That's a lot of money, yeah, or two thousand, was it crone? What's the fucking german money, I don't know? Marks, marks, yeah, two thousand marks. So then andreas was released. But andreas approached schlittenbauer and said hey, give 1,800 marks for a one-time, never-to-be-asked-of-again child support. And Schlittenbauer was like dude, you're a fucking psychopath. Yeah, whatever, take the fucking money. So he gives all the $2,000 back. He's like I'm done with this, I'm wiping my hands, I'm fucking done, right.
Speaker 1:So in 1919, joseph Gruber was born, and life at the Hinterkaifeck farm continues as it always has. Lorenz Schlittenbauer he ended up marrying another woman, and Victoria and her children continue to live under the constant torment and abuse of Andreas Gruber. And this brings us to April of 1922, when the Gruber family and their maid were found murdered. So who killed the family? Right, we need to figure this out. Nobody knows, with little to no evidence of the crime scene that might offer a police a clue to the killer or killers. Uh, detectives began to draw up a list of suspects. One of the first suspects on the list was carl gabriel yes, the dead husband of victoria's. Say what? Although gabriel had reportedly been killed by a shell attack in france in december of 1914, during First World War, his body had never been recovered. Oh so, shortly after the murders, people began to wonder if he had in fact died in the war.
Speaker 3:He ran away. He didn't want to fight, right, he went AWOL and then went right back into the farm Fucking, murdered the family.
Speaker 1:I mean it could happen, but this theory was put to rest when members of Carl Gabriel's platoon confirmed seeing his dead body and the reason he was never recovered is because they were unable to recover it. You know, in the middle of battle Back then, you know they were just like whatever, just leave him there and fucking rot, who cares? Next, the question of young Joseph Gabriel's paternity would also implicate another suspect For sure Loren Schlittenbauerauer, the man who found the bodies of hinder kaifeck and who also had a sexual relationship with victoria shortly after the death of his first wife in 1918.
Speaker 1:Speculation of the involvement of schlittenbauer began early in an investigation by locals owing to his suspicious activities immediately after discovering the bodies. When schlittenbauer arrived to investigate the whereabouts of the Grubers, along with his friends Michael Pohl and Jacob Siegel, the three men had to break the gate to enter the barn because all the doors were locked. However, immediately after finding the four bodies in the barn, schlittenbauer apparently unlocked the front door to the house with a key Missing key, the key that was missing and suspiciously entered the house alone. It was there. He discovered the bodies of the maid Maria Baumgartner and Joseph Gabriel. Now, however, it is possible that because Schlittenbauer was Victoria's lover. He may have been given a key.
Speaker 3:Or known where it was, or known where it was, or whatever. He was probably sneaking over there and having affairs with her. Anyway, oh yeah.
Speaker 1:He was probably banging on fucking 73-year-old mom too. She wasn't getting any.
Speaker 3:Victoria seemed like she was promiscuous.
Speaker 1:She may have liked the D a little bit. She might have been that farm girl. She may have liked that D. So when asked by his companions why he had chosen to go inside the house alone when it was unclear if the murderer was still there, schlittenbauer allegedly said he went to look for his son, joseph. Oh, now he's accepting paternity right While inside the house. It is known that Schlittenbauer had disturbed the bodies at the crime scene in a way that might potentially compromise the investigation. For years after the crime, schlittenbauer remained a center of local suspicion because of his strange comments, which were seen as proof that he knew specific details that only the killer would know. For many years, people speculated that Schlittenbauer murdered the family after Victoria demanded financial support for young Joseph. Before his death in 1941, schlittenbauer initiated several civil lawsuit claims for slander against the people who described him as the murderer of Hinterkaifeck, and he won all of them. There was no proof. Yeah, no proof.
Speaker 3:I don't know, though, He'd be my suspicion too.
Speaker 1:Now, if Schlittenbauer did have knowledge of who committed the murders, he took that secret to the grave when he died. Then we have the testimony of the Gruber's former maid, crescent Raga, who worked for the Gruber family at Hinterkaifeck from November of 1920 to around September of 1921. She gave the names of several suspects to police. One was a man named Anton Bichler. He was a local man who had helped with the potato harvest at Hinterkaifeck and therefore knew the premises. She told police she believed Anton and his brother Carl Bichler might have committed the murders. Raga claimed that Anton Bichler often talked to her about the Gruber and Gabriel family and reportedly suggested that the family ought to be dead.
Speaker 3:The former maid also said in her interrogation that the farm dog who barked at everybody never barked at Antonton really you know, what's interesting too is like they this is obviously like a staple in that community, right, like you said, like the hunters would go there to get to buy stuff and like, so there's constantly like travelers and like like people coming in and out can be like it really could be anybody right, it could just be a psychopath who was yeah, like, uh, you know, you know you had the coffee salesman.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like, back then, you know there weren't stores readily available, so you had salesmen come and bring you a fucking shirt, yeah.
Speaker 3:There's probably so many people. I think of Miriam's, oh my God, hafele Community. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Like it was a stop on this path. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:Mimi's Habitatry. It's like a Habitatry-esque thing when, like just travelers like oh, where are you traveling?
Speaker 1:Do you need a drink?
Speaker 3:I got this elixir yeah. So who? It could be anybody.
Speaker 1:So she told police that she thought that Anton Karl had committed the murder Together with a man named George Siegel.
Speaker 1:Now Siegel was a former farmhand At Hinterkaifeck and knew of the family's fortune. Siegel had a former farmhand at Hinterkaifeck and knew of the family's fortune. Siegel had supposedly broken into a home in November of 1920 and stolen a number of items, a crime for which he denied. When questioned, siegel stated that he had carved the handle of the murder weapon when he was working at Hinterkaifeck and knew that the tool would have been kept in the barn passage. Would have been kept in the barn passage when the farmstead was demolished a year later after the murders, the mattock was found hidden in the crawlspace above the kitchen and the pocket knife used to slit young Silly's throat was found in the hay in the barn, in the hayloft. So apparently this Siegel guy knew that the weapon would be hidden somewhere in the thing. Whatever, and according to other statements by Cressen's Rieger, a thief named Josephoseph thaler claimed to know which family member was sleeping in which room and stated that they had a lot of money hidden in the house but they also didn't.
Speaker 3:They didn't stealing.
Speaker 1:No, nothing was stolen right, but this former maid, she knows a lot of like fucking shady characters. Yeah, if she's like naming off all these people like yeah, you know, whatever, yeah, but then again she was the maid and these guys were farmhands, so they probably came in, worked for a month and they left.
Speaker 1:Yeah, uh, thaler also knew that there was a lot of money hidden hidden in the house. So, during this conversation, rager noted that there was another person nearby, but she could not identify who this person was. According to her statement, joseph thaler and a stranger had looked at the machine house, which is like near the barn, and turned their eyes upward, whatever that means. So the machine house was the part of the house where the footsteps in the snow were leading to Leading to. That's where it went. It disappeared, yeah.
Speaker 1:So these are all plausible theories as to who killed the Gruber family. Well, except for the dead husband who was killed in the war, you know, he's obviously out. However, this next theory is the one that I'm going to go with. The theory claims that Andreas Gruber, the patriarch and chief tormentor of the Gruber family, was the murderer, okay, who cold-bloodedly beat his family members to death with his favorite farm tool, the matic. This, his family members to death with his favorite farm tool, the matic. This would account for the way in which the killer seemingly remained at the farmstead over the next three days after the murder. He continued to tend to the farm and the animals, he cooked meals Very true, and he even tore off the dates on the calendar.
Speaker 1:You know, Like a normal, like he never left. Yeah, the fact that someone was present on the farm was observed by several eyewitnesses, including coffee sellers Hans Sikorsky and his brother, edward uh, who knocked on the door but got no answer, and Michael Plokel, who was passing by the farm on April 1st and was approached by someone in the dark, most likely believed to be Andreas, and he's also the one who reported seeing the smoke from the chimney and the light in the house and whatnot Now on. And the light in the house and whatnot Now. On April 2nd. There were no other reports of anyone living at the farmhouse and no one else visited the property until April 4th, so it was simply assumed that the killer had remained in the house for three days. Why would Andreas Gruber wipe out his entire family? One possibility is that he learned of the real paternity of Joseph and flew into a rage.
Speaker 3:Victoria did have strangulation marks around her neck, making her murder a bit more personal, okay I mean if you're having a sexual relationship with anybody, let alone I mean the daughter's wrong, but you're gonna develop some sort of feelings there and the jealousy's there regardless so well you turn into the fact that this is my daughter, she's's my possession, my possession and also my fuck tool.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know. Now, the second possibility is a bit sicker and more twisted. Andreas may have wanted to move on from raping his daughter, victoria, and begin raping his granddaughter Silly. Oh. Now, victoria was said to have run from the house the night before the murders, uh, and disappeared into the woods for hours. Uh, who knows why. Now, this could have been, uh, because, uh, her and Andrea Scott into a fight over her discovering the incestuous relationship with her seven year old daughter. Oh, my God, poor girl. This fight may have escalated into the next day, which resulted in the murder of his family.
Speaker 1:Now, silly, we learned, was kept alive much longer than everybody else. It was found naked from the waist down and was possibly raped. So if Andreas Gruber in fact is the killer of his family, then who killed Andreas Gruber? There are two theories. The first is that he killed himself, accidentally or on purpose. There were shovel marks in the dirt of the barn showing that Gruber attempted to dig holes in the barn to hide the bodies, but the ground was still too frozen. This is when the partially covered bodies of the three other people in the bone were found covered in hay. Three other people in the bone were found covered in hay. Knowing that he was not going to be able to get away with killing his family, Gruber may have positioned the pickaxe and then leapt from the rafter, landing on the pickaxe, shredding the side of his face, severing his carotid artery.
Speaker 3:I don't know, that's a really that'd be a very hard thing to do.
Speaker 1:To line that up perfectly at that point, because the cause of his death was that he fell on the pickaxe. That's what they said. That was the official cause. He fell on the pickaxe. Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 3:You got to like, like. That's like like when you hear the stories about people who try to kill themselves with shotguns and they pull away last second. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Like half their face is gone but they're still alive.
Speaker 3:Alive, that's like one of those things. Like you better land this perfectly on with precision like that. There's no way. Like 10 out of 10 dies no way, and either if they're on a farm. He has guns. Why wouldn't you just shoot yourself? Why are you? Why are you landing on him? I don't know, yeah.
Speaker 1:Now the second possibility of what happened to our andreas gruber is that that Andreas Gruber was killed after someone discovered the bodies in the barn and inside the home and became extremely upset.
Speaker 3:It was dude. This is easy. This is easy. He came over, found out that Andreas did that, killed him. That's why he knew all this stuff, he knew things before Killed him and then pretended like, oh, I don't know what happened.
Speaker 1:You're on the right. You're on a pretty good path.
Speaker 3:Schlitten, what is it? Schlittenberger, schlittenbauer, schlittenbauer was just like he had that revenge, kill right there. And honestly, I'm not mad at him.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so, yeah. So the identity of that person is not known, but from evidence and remarks made after the murders, neighbor Lorenz Schlittenbauer would be the most likely suspect. Schlittenbauer may have approached the home much earlier than he originally stated, but the story he told the police may have been accurate to a sense, but with a slight twist. Now the theory suggests that Schlittenbauer visited Hinterkaifeck on April 2nd after noticing that the Grubers hadn't attended church and hearing rumors that Silly had not attended school on Friday or Saturday. So back then I don't know if they still do it now, but back then kids went to school six days a week he most likely entered the home with his key and came upon the dead body of his son, two year old Joseph. Searching frantically for the rest of the family, schlittenbauer stumbled across the bodies in the barn and then, in the rafters, discovered Andreas Gruber hiding. A fight ensued and Schlittenbauer struck Andreas in the face with a pickaxe, also severing his carotid artery in the process.
Speaker 3:Yeah, because the Maddox was used for every other family member. He was the only one not killed with the Maddox, with the Maddox, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because, as we stated, Andreas was found with different injuries than the rest of the family. Plus, he was found in his bedclothes which is an old-timey way of saying pajamas suggesting he was possibly sleeping and caught off guard. Now, returning home, Schlittenbauer then waited a couple of days, knowing full well that Andres Gruber, the killer of his family, was already dead. On the afternoon of April 4th, he sent his two young sons to investigate the farm, knowing full well they would be safe from harm. Yeah, Because he knows everything. When they returned with no news, he went with himself, taking two friends as witnesses. Okay. He then entered the house with his key and, for the second time, found the body of his young son. So I'm going with. I think it's safe to say that Andreas Gruber killed his family and then Lorenz Schlittenbauer killed Andreas Gruber.
Speaker 3:And I'm not mad at Schlittenbauer, no.
Speaker 1:I would too, yep. Not mad at all, especially finding your alleged two-year-old son fucking with his head flattened.
Speaker 3:Basically amputated. Oh no, he wasn't.
Speaker 1:Cec flattened, basically amputated. Oh no, he wasn't. Uh, cecilia was the one who was cut open by the throat. Yep, so the investigation of hinter kaifach was officially closed in 1955 with no charges brought against any of those suspected in the gruesome crime. Even though technically closed, the last questioning of a person of interest occurred in 1986 whoa yes, shortly before the retirement of detective chief superintendent conrad mueller. So whether it was andre gruber himself, the neighbor, whoa yes, shortly before the retirement of Detective Chief Superintendent Conrad Mueller. So whether it was Andre Gruber himself, the neighbor Loren Schlittenbauer, or any of the other potential suspects, the case of the Hinterkaifeck murders will most likely never be solved and will forever remain one of Germany's most puzzling and disturbing unsolved murders. Yes, so that'll do it.
Speaker 3:That was a good one, that was like a game of Clue.
Speaker 1:Have Matic Will. Murder by Criminal Life yeah, that was Clue it was a German Clue.
Speaker 3:Yeah it was Dance Party.
Speaker 1:It was the Fama and the dance party, yeah. So let us know what you thought about this episode, comment on Good Pods or Spotify and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts. And thank you all for hanging out with us. Head on over to criminalassfuckcom to check out our Patreon socials merch, or ask us anything you'd like via our mail call tab. Or, if you'd like us to give our shitty advice on a situation that's plaguing you at the moment, hit us up on Dear Deucebags Signing off from. Keep your head on a swivel and stay safe till next time. Now give me our theme music See ya.
Speaker 4:Executive producers for this episode are Christine Rivera, beth Davis, dusty J Hicks and Terry Burke Wall. Associate producers are Paul Hodge, tara Mazur, chantal Daggett, jay from Freight Flick FMK, sharice Webb and Donnie Blake. Producers are JD Trent Gobble, devin Dean, ashley O'Connor, lissa Pirello, alicia Knight, maria Sleen, chris Owen NotThatChad, emily White, ian Turner, dom Caccito, emily Dickendasher, debbie from Chu Prime University and Renee Prada. Intro and outro music by David Mercurio. Thank you.
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