Speaker 1: On this crossover episode.
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I joined Debbie on her podcast True Crime University to provide
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some voiceover work in the role of William Bonin for this
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episode on the Freeway Killer.
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Speaker 2: This is your professor, debbie.
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Welcome to True Crime University, where we have
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intellectual discussions about crime.
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This is a class for mature audiences with mature language
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and subject matter.
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I have a PhD in criminal justice and 17 years experience
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in the law enforcement field, and I am happy to share my
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knowledge with you.
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Hello, class, how is everybody?
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Hopefully everybody is ready to get into this part three of the
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William Bonin case.
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Started out, it was going to be a summer blockbuster and then it
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became kind of a Halloween October blockbuster and it's
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November 3rd and we're nowhere near the end.
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So this is going to be just like a end of 2023 blockbuster.
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Just an item of business.
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Before we get into this horrific tale here, I may or may
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not have Patreon up and running by the time you hear this, but
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please consider.
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I hate to beg.
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I hate to sound like somebody's mother.
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You know how moms are always like.
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Or mine was what do you mean?
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You want this or that?
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Do you think money grows on trees?
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Everything costs money.
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Well, podcasting costs a lot of money, unfortunately.
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So just to help pay the bills around the classroom, please
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consider joining Patreon.
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You get shit.
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It's just not like you're giving me money.
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You actually get stuff in return.
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And today we're going to be talking about the murders.
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There's quite a bit of them.
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I don't know if we're going to get through all of them, but
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major trigger warning.
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Of course these are murderers.
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No, murders are like clean and polite, I don't think.
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But these ones are especially graphic and they involve torture
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, all that kind of nasty stuff.
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So you know how I get into details.
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Speaker 1: And the victims are?
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Speaker 2: well, they were between 12 and 19.
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So basically kids.
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And if you don't think you can handle that, don't listen,
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because this is going to be disturbing.
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And about the victims.
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Unfortunately, since this happened so long ago, I don't
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know very much about them.
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But I'll tell you everything I do know about them.
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I found, as it always is, more information on some than others,
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so I do know enough to create kind of a.
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I always like to when I'm listening to a podcast and they
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talk about the victim, I like to picture them in my head and
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hopefully I have enough here and information on them plus their
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pictures that you can relate to them and kind of imagine in your
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head what they're doing or what they went through.
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And as usual, I'm going to tell everything in chronological
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order.
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Remember last episode I had you write down how many months do
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you think Bonin can be out of prison before he attacks
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somebody?
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And we left off in 1978.
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Bonin got out of prison in October 1978.
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He moved into the apartment complex.
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So an other dude that lived in this complex is going to be kind
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of a pivotal character here Now .
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This dude lived in the same apartment complex as Bonnen did
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and he was 43 at the time.
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His name was Everett, but he went by Scott Frazier.
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He was 12 years older than Bonnen, who at this time was 31.
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There's not a whole bunch of information on him, but what he
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did was he lived in this apartment complex and it seems
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like every night he would have I don't know if I want to use the
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word party.
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He would have guests, let's put it that way and most of these
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guests were younger than himself and of the male variety, if you
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can see where this is going, and there were always people
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there.
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He got beer and other alcohol for the underage people, and
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drugs were part of this scene also, were part of this scene
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also.
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And this reminds me of when I was okay, I don't know, 20,
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whatever.
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There was somebody in my neighborhood.
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He was a dude.
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He was like I don't know, maybe in his 30s.
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He lived in my neighborhood.
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It was him and his wife, and very often they would have
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guests that were underage, and I don't mean like 13, 14.
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, I mean like 20, like below the drinking age, and this guy
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would supply booze for everybody , and I think there were
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probably some drugs there too, and I went there once.
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It was this dude and his wife.
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There wasn't anything like creepy or untoward going on, but
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well, other than the fact that he's supplying minors with
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alcohol, which probably is not a very good idea.
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And I asked my mom, like do you remember you know this dude?
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And she's like yeah.
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And I said he obviously wasn't like a pedophile or you know
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he's married.
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He wasn't like hitting on any of the young people.
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Like why do you think he did this?
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And she said I don't know, maybe he, maybe it made him feel
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young again.
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I was like, hmm, that's that's interesting.
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Maybe if you surround yourself with younger people, you do feel
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young.
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Maybe that's what this Scott Frazier was doing.
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I don't know, but it seems that there was a little more of a
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sexual motive because he was, I guess, openly gay and he liked
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having the younger men or youth there.
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He also at one time worked as a bank officer and that's kind of
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all I know about him.
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And I do want to make this clear.
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He never partook in any of Bonin's crimes.
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He was, I think, vaguely aware that he might have been into
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some shit.
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But when Bonin got arrested he came to the police and told them
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everything that he knew about him.
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Scott described Bonin as polite and placid and they would share
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stories of sex with teenage boys and teenage I don't know if
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that means above the age of consent or not.
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So in November 1978, I honestly don't know how Bonin gets these
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girlfriends or where he meets them but he met a married mother
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.
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Yeah, he, his girlfriend, was married and they used to go
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roller skating in Anaheim on Sundays.
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Then they would go to church, which you got to get your church
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in.
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You know if you're going to be raping and killing, got to get
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that church day in there something sarcastic.
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And they also went bowling and her kids would go too.
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So, needless to say, it wasn't long before Bonnen found out
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that these parties or gatherings occurred at Scott Frazier's
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apartment and they were full of his favorite kind of people
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young dudes and it was here that he would meet two of his
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accomplices in his murder spree.
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That's right, two, if you can believe.
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There are a total of four accomplices that he will have,
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and I mentioned earlier that that's what fascinates me the
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most about this case, not bonin himself, because really he's
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just a garden variety, sadistic sexual predator, but the fact
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that he had managed to get four other young men to help him
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torture, kill and dump off victims is very amazing.
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Like, how does this happen?
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How do all these people come together?
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And I'm going to try my best to tell the story in chronological
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order, introduce these characters as they come in and
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then, in psychology, I will try and put it all together.
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Like, how did this happen?
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How did all these people get involved in this activity?
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And the first of these characters I do mean character
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was Vernon Robert Butts.
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He went by Vern.
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At this time he was 21.
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And the newspaper described him as this is the perfect quote,
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and it's so funny because it's a newspaper, but they called him
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a quote low-life drifter and there's not really a better way
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to describe him.
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He reminds if there's any fellow Scooby-Doo fans out there
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, this is like the come-to-life version of Shaggy, remember,
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he's skinny, he's got like long hair, he's like you know, hey
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man, and the joke is that he was always high.
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Well, he reminds me an awful lot of Shaggy, only he's not
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really laid back and cool and harmless.
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As we're going to see, he came from a quote-unquote broken home
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, as do many people.
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He was raised in the towns of Linwood and then later he lived
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in Norwalk.
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He was nine when his dad died and this supposedly had a very
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bad effect on him.
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He was described as shy and easily led.
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So write that down or remember that easily led, because it's
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going to become important.
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The way that he was described as a kid sounds a lot like the
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descriptions of one, a loner bullied by other people, odd,
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just kind of.
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Was into weird things.
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You know, was known as that weird kid and he apparently had
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mental health issues exactly what I don't know, but he had
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attempted suicide three times before he met Bonin.
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He was also in and out of mental institutions psychiatric
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hospitals, whatever you want to call them and jail, and one of
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the prosecutors would later kind of say jokingly that he was
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doing life in prison on the installment plan, and I think
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that's a perfect way of putting it.
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Like you know, he would go to jail, come out of jail for a
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while, go back, come out, you know, like a revolving door.
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I've known many people like that.
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And if you're wondering why he was described as eccentric, like
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what made him so eccentric?
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Well, he was into some things that a lot of people think is
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odd or strange Witchcraft, the occult dork things.
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I hate to mention this game because it always comes up and
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it's so harmless.
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It's just a fucking game Dungeons and Dragons you
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probably know what that is and he would have weekly D&D parties
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at his house.
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He also got Bonin involved in the game and he also did this
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thing.
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That, I think, sounds like a lot of fun.
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I would really like to participate in such a thing.
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He called them mystery parties and I wish I knew more about how
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they worked or what went on.
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But supposedly he would hide shit around the Downey Like he
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called them murder artifacts and he would leave clues.
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It was like a scavenger hunt Clues to go to one location and
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find this clue, and one of the things was a hairpin, the other
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was an ice pick and we're going to see later on that he has this
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thing about ice picks.
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About ice picks, verne actually had two jobs.
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He worked at a porcelain manufacturing company and George
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Sattler, who was the owner of this factory, is called Santa Fe
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Springs.
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He gave Verne a job as a laborer there as a favor to
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Verne's stepdad.
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He described him as thin, pale and anemic looking and said that
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during his breaks he would sit in his beat-up Pinto smoking
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long-stemmed pipes.
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And in case you don't know what a Pinto is, you know who drove
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one of them?
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Lonnie fucking Franklin.
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It's like the serial killer car .
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And my mom's friend when I was a little kid had one and it was
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the ugliest Google one, just for fun, the ugliest fucking car I
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have ever seen.
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And it's just funny because it said that he had a beat up Pinto
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and I don't know if there were any Pintos that weren't beat up
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or pieces of shit, because well, if there were any pintos that
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weren't beat up or pieces of shit, because well.
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So his co-workers there described him as a loner and a
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weirdo and he would supposedly say strange things.
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Like you know, he had coffins.
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He slept in a coffin.
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I'm pretty sure that this was like attention seeking behavior,
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like I'm weird, look at or listen to my stories of the
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bizarre things that I do.
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He was kind of trying to stand out and wanted to be seen as
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somebody dark and eccentric and weird, and he definitely did a
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good job at it.
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He also had another job.
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This was at Knott's Berry Farm.
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That's an amusement park in Wayna Park.
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He worked as a clerk in the magic store there.
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He told people that he was a magician, like he actually did
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shows at Knott's Berry Farm but in actuality he was just a clerk
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in the store.
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After all this came out, a spokesman for Knott's Berry Farm
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said they hired him as a salesperson in December of 78
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and fired him in July of 79.
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They said he quote did not come up to Knott's standards and had
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quote increasingly strange and unpredictable behavior.
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Also, it was mentioned that he had a problem with hygiene.
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So I guess he stunk.
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He's like Bonin, like he.
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Well, I guess you would call him bisexual.
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He has a girl.
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He called her his girlfriend and her nickname was Katie.
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Supposedly the two of them belong to a satanic cult, or so
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they called it.
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They would go to pagan festivals and graveyards and he
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allegedly participated in black magic rituals.
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He liked to wear fiction, which many other people do, and was
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into cosplay, like he used to.
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He liked to wear costumes.
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He would often randomly appear dressed as Darth Vader.
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That was, I could think, a favorite costume of his.
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He had two coffins in his house .
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One was a coffee table and the other he used for a phone booth.
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And I mentioned he was in and out of jail.
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He had a long record of things like arson, burglary, and later
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a prosecutor would say that he thought Verne developed a
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fascination with sadistic homosexuality while in jail.
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And I mean, that's an interesting thought, who knows.
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And this is a little bit disturbing, kind of like John
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Wayne Gacy.
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But he supposedly performed as a magician at small groups like
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kids' birthday parties and stuff like that, and one time he was
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doing a magic show at Warren High School in Downey and I mean
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, okay, it's 1979, but why this dude was in a school like today,
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that would not go over, I don't think.
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But at the school he met Scott Frazier.
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And why is Frazier at the high school too?
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That's a little bit concerning, because he's like 41 years old.
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Anyway, those two become friendly and Frazier introduces
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Vern and Bonnet and they had this instant click like friends,
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but they also had a sexual relationship.
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So each one of them has a quote-unquote girlfriend, but
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they also have a sexual relationship with each other.
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So Butts at first lived in an apartment on East Imperial
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Highway, which is a really, really long road.
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I looked at it Close to the apartments where Bonnen and
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Frazier lived, but he was kicked out of it in 1979 for making a
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mess out of it.
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Then he moved into a converted garage on Dinwiddie Avenue in
00:17:16
Downey and I'm spending so much time talking about Butts because
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he plays a very integral, very important part in these murders.
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So in April of 1979, scott Frazier met a dude named Blaine.
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Frazier Turns out he was into selling drugs too, so they would
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sell drugs together at Scott's apartment and these two ended up
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being arrested on drug charges.
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Blaine started hanging around Bonnen.
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They would drive around Hollywood looking at boys and
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once they saw a boy and Bonnen asked Frazier if he was
00:18:00
interested in picking him up.
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This boy.
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Frazier said quote, as long as you drop me off before doing
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anything, unquote.
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So this makes me curious as to why did he want to be dropped
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off?
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Did he have a suspicion of what Bonin was up to or did he just
00:18:21
kind of generally sense that whatever it was, it couldn't be
00:18:25
any good?
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And fortunately for him, he said let me out Around.
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This time Alice Bonin's mother gave him and Paul $30 to buy
00:18:36
a restaurant bar called the Alpine Inn in Silverado, which
00:18:42
was like 40 miles from Downing.
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I don't think it's there anymore, but this place was
00:18:47
already known as what you call a nuisance bar.
00:18:50
I think you know what that is.
00:18:51
We have some around here and supposedly they played their
00:18:56
music so loud that the neighbors couldn't hear their own TVs.
00:19:00
I'm like, oh my god, I could not stand living somewhere that
00:19:06
made so much noise.
00:19:07
Well, the bar deal ended up falling through.
00:19:10
They didn't buy the bar and in the meantime Bonnen and Paul
00:19:15
moved into a house on Cactus Way .
00:19:18
Paul bought a plumbing business in Costa Mesa and Bonnen
00:19:22
started working with him, so now the brothers are plumbers.
00:19:26
Okay, we're going to talk about the first murder that Bonin is
00:19:31
suspected of committing.
00:19:33
He was charged with it but he was acquitted of it, and we'll
00:19:37
talk about that after.
00:19:38
You're going to see why.
00:19:40
The victim was 13-year-old Thomas Glenn Longren, or Tommy.
00:19:45
He was born on May 24th 1966.
00:19:48
He lived in the Los Angeles suburb of Resedo.
00:19:53
He had a sister, brenda, who was two years older, and a
00:19:56
younger brother named Michael Real cute kid.
00:19:59
I have a picture of him on my Instagram.
00:20:02
It's a picture of him sitting in his bedroom.
00:20:04
He has all these like rock posters around and I was curious
00:20:09
because I like to learn as much as I can about victims.
00:20:13
I had my boyfriend look at the picture.
00:20:15
He's into like that kind of music and I said do you
00:20:18
recognize any of those bands or singers.
00:20:20
He said that one is Ted Nugent.
00:20:22
So in case you're curious, that's the kind of music he
00:20:25
liked.
00:20:33
He was in the Boy Scouts and later a friend came forward.
00:20:34
This is ridiculous.
00:20:35
He went to Boy Scout camp with Tommy.
00:20:36
Apparently.
00:20:36
Tommy liked to get into shit.
00:20:37
He was described as a quote very hyper kid.
00:20:40
This was 1976 or 1977.
00:20:43
So the Scoutmaster tied a rope around Tommy's waist like a
00:20:48
leash and made his friends hold on to him and I'm like I don't
00:20:53
know.
00:20:54
I've never been any kind of scout or scout leader, or even
00:20:58
had a child, but that just doesn't sound right to me.
00:21:01
Like here I'm going to tie up your friend and lead him around
00:21:04
like a dog, so he'll behave.
00:21:06
So Tommy's favorite hobby was skateboarding and he broke his
00:21:10
arm doing skateboarding and painted a rainbow on the cast.
00:21:14
Friends said he was silly, but I think it's creative and cute.
00:21:18
One of his friend's parents owned a store that sold pinball
00:21:22
and video games and it was called Pachinko Palace.
00:21:26
Tommy really wanted a pinball machine and he would go there
00:21:30
often to play them.
00:21:31
And, just as an interesting fact, guess what serial killer
00:21:35
also went to this shop Angelo Buono of the infamous pair known
00:21:42
as the Hillside Stranglers.
00:21:43
So one day Tommy told his friend that some dude had
00:21:47
approached him, he was skateboarding, and said he would
00:21:51
pay him to pose with his skateboard for a skateboard
00:21:55
magazine and he'd made plans to meet said dude on May 28th at
00:22:01
the skate park.
00:22:02
He told his friend that his mom knew about this and said okay.
00:22:07
But later his mom was like no, the fuck, I did not.
00:22:11
He was last seen in front of his house with his skateboard by a
00:22:15
neighbor, and it was like 11 am on May 28th 1979.
00:22:20
Unfortunately, tommy disappeared.
00:22:22
Unfortunately, tommy disappeared.
00:22:24
His body was found by a sightseer later that day, caught
00:22:28
in bushes on a hillside, and this person would later say,
00:22:33
quote All I could see was the blood.
00:22:35
It was bright red, it was fresh .
00:22:37
Then, oh my God, I saw the boy's crotch.
00:22:40
I thought I would be sick.
00:22:42
I couldn't believe what I was seeing.
00:22:44
End quote.
00:22:44
So he calls the police, what ended up being the LA County
00:22:48
Sheriff's Department, and Sergeant Dave Kushner came to
00:22:54
the crime scene and he will play a big role on this whole
00:22:56
freeway killer investigation.
00:22:58
The sheriff testified in court.
00:23:00
This is going to be graphic, by the way.
00:23:02
Quote when I first arrived, the first thing I observed was that
00:23:06
the body had been emasculated.
00:23:08
The penis and scrotum appeared to have been removed from the
00:23:12
body and there was a large pool of blood under the victim's head
00:23:16
.
00:23:16
I walked on up to the boy and saw a complete slashing through
00:23:20
the throat.
00:23:21
There was a ligature mark too, too, I unquote he found his
00:23:26
penis and scrotum about two feet away lying in the dirt.
00:23:30
His tennis shoes were up in a tree about 10 feet away, along
00:23:34
with his underwear and his short cut-off pants.
00:23:41
Said that he, quote died of severe slash wounds to the
00:23:45
throat that severed his carotid arteries and larynx, which
00:23:49
extended nearly to the back of the neck.
00:23:52
He also had bruises that could have been bite marks and, quote,
00:23:58
his chest and skull have been fractured by a blow from an
00:24:02
object like a tire jack handle.
00:24:04
End quote.
00:24:06
A friend later said that they went to Tommy's funeral and I
00:24:11
just cannot picture this.
00:24:13
It doesn't make any sense to me .
00:24:14
Apparently, tommy wasn't in a coffin.
00:24:17
He was laying on a table with like a sheet over him and maybe
00:24:21
the friend like misremembered or something, because it's just, I
00:24:24
can't imagine this.
00:24:24
And the friend like misremembered or something,
00:24:25
because it's just, I can't imagine this.
00:24:27
And the friend said they did a shitty job of covering up the
00:24:31
stab wounds, like you could see this gaping wound on his throat
00:24:36
and I'm like, oh my God, it's bad enough if you're a kid and
00:24:39
somebody your age dies, but to have to see that that is really,
00:24:44
really awful.
00:24:45
And somebody played Stairway to Heaven on a guitar during the
00:24:50
service.
00:24:51
So the friend said that she thinks of him anytime she hears
00:24:54
that song.
00:24:55
Tommy's dad went to all of the trials, all of Bonin's trials,
00:24:59
and his mom was the opposite.
00:25:01
She's like I don't want to see and hear about that.
00:25:02
Interestingly, bonin always denied killing Tommy and he said
00:25:09
, quote I don't cut the dicks off, little boys.
00:25:12
End quote.
00:25:13
Now, if we're going to look at the specifics of Tommy's murder,
00:25:17
I have my doubts.
00:25:18
Also, the jury did acquit him on this and I can see why.
00:25:23
No other victim of Bonnen's was emasculated like that.
00:25:28
And whoever killed him used the ruse about hey, do you want to
00:25:34
pose for a skateboarding magazine?
00:25:36
I'll meet you on such and such a date.
00:25:39
Bonin never did anything like that, he just spurred the moment
00:25:42
hey, that looks like a good one .
00:25:44
So in my own opinion which of course it doesn't mean anything
00:25:48
Tommy's killing sounds more to me like the work of Randy Kraft,
00:25:54
who was known to cut off the genitals of his victims.
00:26:11
19th Bonnen goes to Downey Ford and buys an ugly puke green 1972
00:26:13
Ford E100 shorty van.
00:26:14
I have a picture of it.
00:26:15
It's ugly as fuck.
00:26:15
So go ahead and start with the serial killer and their van
00:26:17
jokes, because this is exactly what it's going to be used for.
00:26:20
He would eventually nickname it the.
00:26:23
He would eventually nickname it the Death Van, and really
00:26:26
that's very creative.
00:26:27
It had new carpet, fake wood paneling and curtains between
00:26:35
the front and the back.
00:26:35
So there was some discussion on whether or not he planned to
00:26:38
kill people and bought the van for this purpose, or that he
00:26:44
bought the van first and the killing started afterward.
00:26:49
I think, in my opinion, that the reason he bought the van was
00:26:55
to pick up people and do not necessarily kill, because I
00:27:00
don't know if this was in his mind yet, but knowing him, he
00:27:04
did have some nefarious purpose.
00:27:06
He intended, I think, to abduct and rape boys in the back of
00:27:11
the van and if we believe that he didn't kill Tommy, there's no
00:27:15
way to know if killing was on his mind yet or not.
00:27:19
He set about customizing his new van by removing all the
00:27:23
inner handles from the passenger side and back so that nobody
00:27:27
could get out and put some tools in the van Ligatures, knives,
00:27:33
pliers, wire, coat, hangers which kind of shows some
00:27:37
premeditation that he's going to be up to something.
00:27:41
Remember the guessing game we were playing about how long
00:27:45
would he be out of prison before he abducted and killed?
00:27:48
If we don't include Tommy, it's going to be 10 months.
00:27:53
So, according to what Bonin said later, this is how the subject
00:27:58
of killing boys came up.
00:27:59
I'll just tell you what he said and you can decide for yourself
00:28:03
if you believe it or not.
00:28:04
What he said, and you can decide for yourself if you
00:28:09
believe it or not.
00:28:09
Supposedly, according to Bonnen , he had discussed killing
00:28:11
people with Vern before, like casually and this is usually the
00:28:14
way that killer couples get started Like one will mention
00:28:18
something like murder and the other reacts and the person who
00:28:23
brought it up weighs the other person's response, like if they
00:28:27
think they have a favorable response.
00:28:28
Like if they say something like oh, that'd be fun, I've always
00:28:31
wanted to do that too.
00:28:32
Or if they say, oh, my God, get the fuck out of here, are you
00:28:36
crazy?
00:28:36
That will be an unfavorable response.
00:28:39
So we know for a fact that their first killing we know for
00:28:42
a fact that their first killing I'm not counting Tommy occurred
00:28:46
on August 4th 1979.
00:28:49
This was Bonin and Verne.
00:28:51
Bonin picked up Verne in the ugly van and they went to the
00:28:56
drive-in theater on Highway 39 in the town of Westminster in
00:29:00
Orange County.
00:29:01
And the defendant later said to the police, quote during the
00:29:07
break between movies we got around to talking about murder
00:29:11
and picking up a guy and having sex with him and then killing
00:29:14
him.
00:29:14
I was sort of joking at the time.
00:29:16
Vern thought the idea was real neat.
00:29:19
He told me I always wanted to see what it was like to kill
00:29:23
someone.
00:29:23
One of my fantasies is to kill someone using an ice pick and
00:29:27
put it into his ear.
00:29:28
We continued to talk and then I thought I noticed he was very
00:29:34
serious.
00:29:34
I was surprised.
00:29:36
So I asked him are you serious?
00:29:38
He said yeah.
00:29:39
I then said if you can handle it, so can I.
00:29:43
Okay, then why don't we leave right now?
00:29:46
Vern said okay, let's go.
00:29:48
And we left.
00:29:49
You know, I was kind of testing him.
00:29:52
Really, I didn't think he would go for it, but he did.
00:29:55
I don't like doing stuff by myself.
00:29:57
End quote.
00:29:58
Notice how, in Bonin's version of events.
00:30:01
He said that he was joking but Vern was serious, thus putting
00:30:08
the blame on Verne for coming up with the idea.
00:30:10
And this is just your typical serial killer bullshit.
00:30:14
You know, nothing is my fault thinking pattern.
00:30:18
They left the drive-in and drove down Beach Boulevard where
00:30:23
Bonin had seen hitchhikers before.
00:30:25
Again, he emphasized that he had no intention of killing the
00:30:30
person they picked up, that he was gonna quote have the sex ie
00:30:36
rape and then let him out.
00:30:38
The boy they picked up wasn't hitchhiking, he was just walking
00:30:42
home to his home in Westminster .
00:30:45
This was 17-year-old Mark Dwayne Shelton.
00:30:48
He was born on December 19, 1961, in Garden Grove and was
00:30:54
one of five kids.
00:30:55
Sadly, that's about all the biological information I have on
00:30:59
him.
00:31:00
According to Bonin, he pulled up and asked Mark for directions,
00:31:03
then offered him a ride.
00:31:04
Mark got in the van and Bonin.
00:31:04
He pulled up and asked Mark for directions but then offered him
00:31:06
a ride.
00:31:06
Mark got in the van and Bonin asked him if he had ever quote
00:31:11
gotten head from a guy before unquote, to which Mark replied
00:31:16
no, according to Bonin.
00:31:18
I'm stressing that he offered Mark $400 for four or five hours
00:31:26
of his time.
00:31:27
That's a lot of money, supposedly.
00:31:31
Mark agreed and Bonnet started driving to a cabin in the
00:31:36
mountains of the Cajun Pass.
00:31:39
I don't even know if this cabin really existed, but this is
00:31:43
what he told Mark.
00:31:45
He's like well, we'll go to my cabin.
00:31:46
Supposedly.
00:31:48
He asked Mark how late he could stay out and Mark said quote,
00:31:52
all night, it doesn't matter really.
00:31:54
End quote.
00:31:55
Then, according to Bonnen, he told Mark that he wanted to
00:32:01
quote see what he got and proceeded to unzip his shorts
00:32:06
and rub his penis.
00:32:07
Trigger warning this is going to get graphic.
00:32:09
Then he said that he said quote nice package, vern, check it
00:32:15
out, I can't wait to get to the cabin.
00:32:18
End quote.
00:32:19
Supposedly.
00:32:20
Vern then squeezed Mark's penis and hurt him and Mark cried out
00:32:26
and went to the back of the van .
00:32:29
Then, according to Bonin, the story gets even more ridiculous
00:32:34
as he goes on.
00:32:34
While Bonin is driving, vern is in the back with Mark
00:32:40
entertaining him with magic and card tricks.
00:32:43
And during the hour-long drive, bonin said that he could hear
00:32:47
Mark laughing and having a good time.
00:32:49
He said quote, he was happy, he was going to earn $400, end
00:32:55
quote.
00:32:55
So Bonin pulled into a boarded-up gas station and went
00:32:59
in the back with Mark.
00:33:01
He told Vern to sit up front and act as a lookout.
00:33:05
He then said that he and Mark started to make out and he
00:33:10
undressed him.
00:33:11
This quote is just like wow.
00:33:15
He said, quote.
00:33:16
I could tell that the kid was real relaxed and sexually
00:33:21
excited, making little groans of contentment end quote excited,
00:33:28
making little groans of contentment, end quote.
00:33:29
I can't tell if this is just an out and out lie or did he
00:33:31
somehow imagine this or wish that this was happening?
00:33:35
Like this was just wishful thinking on his part.
00:33:38
Then Vern supposedly filleted Mark and Bonin ordered Mark to
00:33:44
fillet him.
00:33:45
He said that he did, although he was quote nervous and
00:33:48
shivering.
00:33:49
Then Bonin ordered Mark to lay on his stomach, to quote let me
00:33:55
fuck him.
00:33:55
And Mark supposedly nodded yes, it's this, okay, bullshit, I
00:34:01
don't believe this.
00:34:02
Then Bonin said that when he started to insert his penis into
00:34:08
Mark, that Mark quote screamed out in pain and reared up which
00:34:13
duh.
00:34:14
Of course this sent Bonin into a rage and he supposedly yelled
00:34:19
quote man, you scared the shit out of me, you little bastard
00:34:23
unquote.
00:34:24
Then he said he punched Mark in the chest abdomen and grabbed
00:34:28
him by the balls and squeezed and then kneed him in the face
00:34:33
several times until Mark was unconscious.
00:34:35
Then supposedly, he told Vern quote we can't let him go, we'd
00:34:41
better just go ahead and finish him off right now, End quote.
00:34:44
So Vern supposedly readily agreed.
00:34:48
And now, in his own words, let's hear what Bonnen said
00:34:55
during his tape confession.
00:34:57
Speaker 1: We flipped the kid back over on his stomach.
00:34:59
He had a long sleeve shirt so I tied the sleeves and wrapped it
00:35:02
around his neck, then slipped a tire iron through the loop and
00:35:05
started twisting.
00:35:06
Vern was on top of him holding his hands behind his back.
00:35:09
I twisted and twisted the shirt around his neck real tight.
00:35:13
Then the kid woke up and started wiggling around and Vern
00:35:17
couldn't hold him.
00:35:17
So I used my right hand to keep his hands from getting free and
00:35:21
kept a strong grip on the tire iron with my left.
00:35:23
Vern eventually got a better grip and after three or four
00:35:28
minutes the kid stopped moving and we let him go.
00:35:29
We thought he was dead, so we relaxed.
00:35:34
I untied the shirt and within about ten seconds we heard this
00:35:36
long inhaling of air coming from Mark.
00:35:38
Vern panicked and screamed he's not dead.
00:35:42
That put me into panic also.
00:35:44
I jumped up and put the shirt around his neck again and began
00:35:48
twisting.
00:35:48
I screamed at Vern to get back on top of him and hold it tight
00:35:52
while I drove.
00:35:52
Then Vern starts talking about the ice pick thing.
00:35:56
I look around for something to use.
00:35:58
I knew there wasn't anything like that in the van.
00:36:00
I found a rusty wire in the bushes and pushed the wire into
00:36:03
his ear as hard as I could.
00:36:04
I didn't get any reactions, but I was actually still not sure
00:36:08
if he was dead.
00:36:09
I didn't get any reactions, but I was actually still not sure
00:36:10
if he was dead.
00:36:10
As we walked back to the van, I saw a short dried-out tree
00:36:13
branch and picked it up and walked back to Mark's dead body
00:36:16
and I shoved it up his ass.
00:36:17
He didn't move.
00:36:19
Now I could relax.
00:36:21
He was definitely dead.
00:36:23
We left there and headed home.
00:36:28
Speaker 2: We were laughing as we felt we got away with it.
00:36:29
Mark's nude body was found on August 11th off I-15 in the
00:36:35
Cajun Pass area.
00:36:36
Reportedly he was so eaten by animals that he was barely
00:36:41
recognizable.
00:36:42
His cause of death was determined to be shock due to
00:36:46
the shoving of a stick into his rectum.
00:36:48
Sadly, he was considered a John Doe until March 1980.
00:36:52
His parents, dawn and Ramona, never stopped looking for him,
00:36:57
hiking miles through the canyons of Orange County.
00:36:59
Finally, dawn got Mark's dental records and took them to the
00:37:04
Westminster police, himself proving the fact that sometimes,
00:37:07
if you want something done, you just have to do it yourself.
00:37:10
Finally, mark had been identified.
00:37:12
His dad told the newspaper quote the police have always
00:37:17
been nice to me, but they gave us the impression they just
00:37:21
didn't give a damn.
00:37:22
It seems like I've done all the work since this started.
00:37:25
End quote.
00:37:26
Mark's parents actually sued the city of Westminster for what
00:37:31
they believed was negligence in trying to identify Mark, but
00:37:35
they lost, if the dates on this are right born and killed again
00:37:41
the next day.
00:37:43
This one he did alone.
00:37:44
The victim was 17-year-old Marcus Grabs, an exchange
00:37:48
student from Germany, and I don't have very much information
00:37:52
about him.
00:37:53
He was born in Germany on March 4th 1962, and he planned to
00:37:59
hitchhike around the United States of 1979.
00:38:15
And on August 2nd a couple who was driving along saw him.
00:38:17
They noticed the British flag on his backpack and stopped to
00:38:19
talk to him.
00:38:19
And Marcus told them that he was going south and planned to
00:38:22
sleep on the beach.
00:38:22
And they said well, you know that's illegal, you can't sleep
00:38:26
on the beach.
00:38:26
Why don't you stay at our place ?
00:38:28
So he did for three nights and on Sunday, august 5th, they
00:38:33
dropped him off on the Pacific Coast Highway in Newport Beach.
00:38:36
Unfortunately, he was picked up by Bonnen who was, I've said
00:38:41
before, was alone.
00:38:42
He got in the van on the PCH Pacific Coast Highway in Newport
00:38:48
Beach somewhere between 6 and 10 pm on August 5th and here is
00:38:54
Bonin's version of what happened .
00:38:56
Speaker 1: It felt really strange that morning.
00:38:57
After all, vern and I had just killed a kid the night before.
00:39:01
That would make anyone feel jumpy.
00:39:03
But man, I really felt a new kind of power from killing that
00:39:07
first one.
00:39:07
I'd never done that before and it was a real high Still kind of
00:39:11
can't believe that we actually killed him.
00:39:13
I needed to get out.
00:39:15
I was so jumpy and driving always makes me feel peaceful.
00:39:18
Guess that's why I like driving trucks.
00:39:20
Hell, I would just go out and start driving anywhere just to
00:39:24
gear down.
00:39:26
Thinking back to that day, I didn't really go out to kill
00:39:28
anyone.
00:39:28
Really I can truthfully say killing wasn't on my mind.
00:39:31
When I left that morning I spotted a kid hitchhiking and
00:39:34
you know I started getting horny , figured I'd just pull up and
00:39:38
feel him out about gays.
00:39:39
I found out he was a student from Germany and was backpacking
00:39:42
around during summer vacation.
00:39:44
I think he was going to Mexico, I can't remember, but I'll tell
00:39:48
you his looks turned me on Tall , lean, nice, tight body, with
00:39:53
light colored eyes and hair.
00:39:54
I started talking about sex and asked him if he was gay.
00:39:58
He smiled and crawled in the front seat with me.
00:40:00
I started feeling a little better, thinking about fucking
00:40:03
him.
00:40:05
There were a lot of cars parked along the highway, so I pulled
00:40:07
in between a couple of campers.
00:40:08
Most of the people were out walking along the water, but I
00:40:12
still closed the windows.
00:40:13
I didn't want anybody to disturb us.
00:40:15
We got in the back of the van and took our clothes off.
00:40:18
Then we started giving each other a head.
00:40:19
It was so good.
00:40:21
We did that for a little while and then I had it in my mind
00:40:24
somewhere about trying out bondage.
00:40:26
I'd never done it before.
00:40:30
So I got out some electrician-type wire out of my
00:40:31
toolkit and hooked him up.
00:40:33
I guess he thought it wouldn't hold him if he really wanted to
00:40:35
get free.
00:40:37
When I finished hooking him up, I looked down at him lying there
00:40:39
on his stomach with his hands tied behind his back.
00:40:41
It felt good.
00:40:43
I felt like I was really something.
00:40:46
I felt strong.
00:40:47
You know, growing up I always felt helpless.
00:40:49
I started caressing his body by running my buck knife blade up
00:40:53
and down his skin.
00:40:54
His body was almost hairless, nice and smooth.
00:41:01
All the while I kept telling him how easy it would be to kill
00:41:03
him.
00:41:03
Guess, I kind of wanted him to be afraid of me.
00:41:04
I still didn't plan to kill him.
00:41:05
I wanted to play with him, show him who's boss.
00:41:08
I held the knife up to his throat, told him I should cut
00:41:12
him.
00:41:12
He looked at me like he was starting to feel scared, all of
00:41:16
a sudden realizing he was helpless.
00:41:18
The kid couldn't tell if I was serious or not.
00:41:21
I didn't know if I was or not either.
00:41:23
I backed off because I wanted to enjoy him some more.
00:41:27
We were getting excited, so I reached down between his legs
00:41:30
and checked out his dick.
00:41:31
It was hard, like mine was too.
00:41:37
I got him up on his knees and pushed inside of him, stroking
00:41:40
back and forth until I exploded.
00:41:41
Then I grabbed all of his nuts and squeezed him real hard.
00:41:44
He screamed, broke loose and I fell back.
00:41:47
Then the kid twisted around and faced me with his fist raised
00:41:49
in the air, ready to punch me.
00:41:52
I had to defend myself.
00:41:53
I didn't have any choice.
00:41:54
He was strong and he might overpower me, maybe even kill me
00:41:58
.
00:41:58
I just wanted him to be afraid of me, to look up at me.
00:42:01
Know I could kill him at any second.
00:42:03
I wanted him to show me respect .
00:42:07
Anyway, I'm afraid of knives and didn't have any intention of
00:42:10
using it as a weapon.
00:42:11
I didn't want blood all over my new van.
00:42:13
But I had to defend myself.
00:42:15
I had no choice.
00:42:15
He was strong, maybe even stronger than me.
00:42:18
What could I do?
00:42:19
What if he had gotten the knife away from me?
00:42:22
He might have even killed me.
00:42:25
The kid landed a hard one right across my jaw and I fell back
00:42:28
and hit my head against the van.
00:42:29
I was shocked.
00:42:31
He nailed me good.
00:42:32
The knife was in my hand.
00:42:38
I didn't know what to do, so I raised it up and dug it hard
00:42:40
into his upper arm.
00:42:40
The kid screamed in horror really loud.
00:42:42
His eyes were wide open.
00:42:43
He couldn't believe it.
00:42:44
Fuck.
00:42:45
I couldn't believe I'd done it.
00:42:49
Then something inside me clicked and I was on automatic pilot.
00:42:51
I had to survive.
00:42:52
So I got a better grip on the knife and I started stabbing him
00:42:54
wildly over and over.
00:42:56
But he was twisting and turning .
00:42:58
I hit him in the back, in the butt, I don't know where else.
00:43:02
I was just stabbing blindly.
00:43:03
His blood squirted all over the place, on the walls, the
00:43:09
curtains, on me.
00:43:10
He tried to grab the knife, but I wouldn't let him get it.
00:43:11
I couldn't let him live.
00:43:13
He'd tell the police and I'd be in prison again.
00:43:15
I'd been in too many times, raped and beaten by other
00:43:19
inmates, and no one helped me out.
00:43:20
I just kept stabbing him frantically until he stopped
00:43:24
fighting.
00:43:26
The kid was asking me to take him to the hospital.
00:43:27
I said, sure, I mean, what else could I say?
00:43:30
But he was getting on my nerves with all the whining.
00:43:34
Finally I told him to shut up.
00:43:36
I said I was going to take him to a place, drop him off and
00:43:38
then call a doctor to come and help him.
00:43:40
He quieted it down.
00:43:42
I drove down Malibu Canyon and found a lonely side road.
00:43:45
I started dragging him out.
00:43:47
He was screaming all over again .
00:43:48
He was weak and I had to hide him real good.
00:43:56
So I wrapped him up in a blanket, but then I was all
00:43:58
covered in blood again.
00:43:58
So I got him on his stomach and started strangling him.
00:44:00
That wasn't working because I wasn't getting enough leverage,
00:44:02
but I had to kill him.
00:44:03
I wrapped an orange cord around his neck and tried to strangle
00:44:06
him, but I couldn't manage it.
00:44:08
I didn't like using the knife, I didn't like that blood going
00:44:12
everywhere, but there was no other way.
00:44:14
I got the buck knife out of the van and put my mind in a sort
00:44:17
of zen state in order to bring myself to the point of being
00:44:19
able to stab him again.
00:44:20
I stabbed him I don't know how many times, but I just kept
00:44:23
stabbing him like I was in a frenzy.
00:44:25
I had to make sure he was finished off, so I ran my fist
00:44:28
up his ass and he didn't flinch.
00:44:29
I started thinking about how it was when I got beaten as a kid.
00:44:33
I used to beg my old man to stop Shit.
00:44:36
He wouldn't.
00:44:38
Speaker 2: Notice that all of Bonin's statements are
00:44:42
self-serving, stressing that these victims willingly got in
00:44:47
the van and most agreed to sex.
00:44:49
That these victims willingly got in the van and most agreed
00:44:53
to sex.
00:44:53
I find it hard to believe that all of these kids said to this
00:44:54
dirty old man because at this time Bonin was 32, okay, sure,
00:45:00
I'll have sex with you.
00:45:01
It's just not believable.
00:45:03
Note a couple of things he says besides his story of consensual
00:45:09
sex.
00:45:09
He claimed that he was just defending himself from Marcus,
00:45:16
who supposedly became aggressive .
00:45:18
This is important to note.
00:45:21
He said he got a thrill from Marcus's fear and that he was
00:45:27
enjoying the power that he had over him.
00:45:29
And this, right here, is the key.
00:45:32
And you know what somebody who gets enjoyment from having fear
00:45:37
and power over others is A sadist, of course.
00:45:41
The next morning at about 630, a man named Harold was driving on
00:45:47
Las Vergenes Canyon Road and saw what looked like a body.
00:45:51
He stopped and, sure enough, it was the body of a nude male.
00:45:55
The LA County Sheriff's Department, particularly
00:45:59
Sergeant Kushner, arrived and found what was Marcus, with
00:46:04
bruises on his face, multiple stab wounds, an orange cord
00:46:08
still around his neck and blue ignition wires binding his
00:46:13
ankles.
00:46:13
He also had ligature burn marks indicating that he'd been
00:46:17
strangled from behind.
00:46:18
His shoes were across the road and he had nothing of value in
00:46:23
his backpack, like no identifying things.
00:46:26
An autopsy revealed quote severe injuries to the anal
00:46:31
region, consistent with the defendant Bonin saying that he
00:46:37
put his fist into Mark's anus.
00:46:41
And this next part.
00:46:43
You're just not going to believe this.
00:46:44
It's so ridiculous.
00:46:46
Bonin got arrested again.
00:46:49
This information is from the Orange County Sheriff's Crime
00:46:54
Report.
00:46:55
On August 9th 1979, at about midnight, bonin had picked up a
00:47:01
17-year-old boy and was parked in a school parking lot.
00:47:05
An officer, duncan, observed that the van was quote moving
00:47:11
slightly due to movement inside end, quote so he decided to
00:47:16
investigate.
00:47:17
Inside were, of course, bonnen and a 17-year-old boy who said
00:47:22
that Bonnen had picked him up hitchhiking.
00:47:24
According to the police report, shortly after the ride started,
00:47:30
bonin reached over and fondled his genital area, saying does
00:47:35
this feel good?
00:47:36
He replied I don't get into this and pushed his hand away.
00:47:41
Bonin said that he was bisexual and he should try it.
00:47:45
Bonin again touched his genital area while driving the
00:47:51
defendant parked in the school parking lot, then again fondled
00:47:55
the boy, saying quote, can't you get it hard for me?
00:47:59
Bonnen then pulled the boy into the back of the van saying,
00:48:04
quote don't you want a good blowjob?
00:48:06
The defendant pulled his pants down and tried to kiss the boy,
00:48:10
who again said hey, I'm not into this.
00:48:14
As we know by now, bonin doesn't take no for an answer.
00:48:18
He unzipped the boy's pants and had just started fellating him
00:48:23
when the cop happened upon the scene.
00:48:25
Thankfully for the kid upon the scene, thankfully for the kid,
00:48:33
bonnen was arrested for sexual perversion and jailed from
00:48:34
August 9th to August 13th.
00:48:35
Thanks to his attorney, who filed a writ of habeas corpus,
00:48:39
he was released and scheduled to appear for a hearing on August
00:48:43
24th.
00:48:44
A parole revocation hearing was scheduled for September 18th.
00:48:50
So as a former probation officer, I have absolutely no
00:48:55
idea how he was able to get out of jail while on parole for a
00:49:01
serious sex offense.
00:49:04
Lucky or slips through the cracks, like this time.
00:49:08
Bonin thinks he's even more invincible, which is common with
00:49:12
serial killers or any career criminals.
00:49:14
He called Scott Frazier for a ride home from jail and again
00:49:19
declared this is never going to happen again.
00:49:22
Nobody's ever going to testify against me again.
00:49:25
Unfortunately, scott, like everybody who'd heard this
00:49:29
previously, thought nothing of it or took to mean that Bonin
00:49:33
planned to stop abducting, raping and killing.
00:49:36
So then Bonin gets the genius idea of establishing a sort of
00:49:42
alibi for the murder of Marcus, and for this he enrolls the help
00:49:47
of his shady friend Scott Frazier.
00:49:49
On August 17th, 12 days after he killed Marcus, bonin took
00:49:54
Frazier to lunch at a restaurant where he told Frazier that he
00:49:59
had killed a dude in self-defense.
00:50:01
In a half-assed tale, he claimed that he and Vern had
00:50:06
picked up a hitchhiker for sex.
00:50:08
Remember, vern wasn't even there for this one.
00:50:11
Things had gotten out of hand and he had been forced to stab
00:50:15
the kid to death in an act of self-defense.
00:50:18
Apparently, frazier bought this load of bullshit.
00:50:21
Bonnen also said that he'd been shaken up over the incident.
00:50:27
Apparently he wasn't too shaken up over the incident.
00:50:29
Apparently he wasn't too shaken up because three days later, on
00:50:33
August 20th, he and Vern were at it again.
00:50:37
This victim was 18-year-old Robert Wurostek, who had been
00:50:42
born in Flint, michigan, on October 30th 1960.
00:50:46
He was one of six kids born to Robert and Joan and was
00:50:51
described as very athletic.
00:50:53
He played football and graduated from high school in
00:50:56
Michigan in 1978, then moved to California with his family.
00:51:01
He was riding his bicycle to work at a grocery store called
00:51:06
Ralph's Market that day when he ran into Bonin.
00:51:10
Bonin actually gave two versions of the events of Bob's
00:51:15
murder the version he told the detectives and the written one.
00:51:18
I'm going with the written one, since it's slightly less
00:51:23
self-serving and more graphic, and I think it's closer to the
00:51:27
truth.
00:51:27
He starts off by saying that he was taking a drive along the
00:51:33
shore because it was a sunny day , which is bullshit, when he
00:51:37
happened upon Bob hitchhiking near Newport Beach.
00:51:41
He never mentions a bicycle, so we know this isn't accurate.
00:51:45
It starts out like all the other confessions he saw a
00:51:48
good-looking dude, picked him up politely, asked if he was
00:51:53
interested in homosexual activities, etc.
00:51:56
Speaker 1: Then, according to Bonin, this is what happened
00:51:59
next we got back in a van, I started sucking on him and
00:52:02
rubbing his chest.
00:52:03
Oh yeah, that feels great, he said.
00:52:05
I had him hooked.
00:52:07
He was laying on his back and really enjoying it.
00:52:10
I went in the back to get tissue and came back with an
00:52:13
8-inch steak knife.
00:52:14
I held it to his throat.
00:52:16
I said if you move, I'll stick you with this knife.
00:52:19
He was petrified and said I'll do anything.
00:52:22
I tied him up and told him one false move and I'll stick you.
00:52:27
I could see sweat on his tan skin and it was really turning
00:52:29
me on.
00:52:29
I pulled down my pants and I butt fucked him.
00:52:32
He started complaining and I told him if you make any noise,
00:52:36
you're a dead motherfucker.
00:52:37
I drove my dick into him and fucked him real hard.
00:52:40
I then found a photo booth and called Vern.
00:52:43
All the way to Vern's place he asked me to loosen his hands
00:52:46
because they were hurting.
00:52:47
I told him to shut up.
00:52:50
After I got Vern in the van, I headed out towards the I-10
00:52:52
freeway.
00:52:53
During the time I was driving, vern learned his name was Bob
00:52:57
Weirstick.
00:52:57
Vern gave him head and slapped him around a little bit.
00:53:00
Then Vern drove and I got back there and rolled him onto his
00:53:04
stomach.
00:53:04
I asked Vern, would you like to hear him scream?
00:53:07
And Vern said sure, why don't you do that finger trick?
00:53:10
That was a thing we discussed the night before, where we'd
00:53:16
break the guy's fingers.
00:53:16
I said okay, and I grabbed Bob's little finger and bent it
00:53:18
back until he screamed in pain.
00:53:19
After I finished, I went for the little finger on the other
00:53:23
hand, and he begged me not to.
00:53:24
I pushed it back for a while but didn't break it.
00:53:28
I then grabbed his nuts and squeezed.
00:53:30
Then I took the tire iron and rolled him over on his back and
00:53:33
hit him as hard as I could on both knees and ankles.
00:53:35
I hit him on his shoulders and elbows.
00:53:38
Then I told him we're going to let you out, but you will be
00:53:41
unconscious.
00:53:42
I gave him the choice of either choking him out or hitting him
00:53:46
over the head.
00:53:46
He said he didn't know.
00:53:48
I hit him across the head with the tire iron and I thought he
00:53:51
was out.
00:53:52
I hit him again and he raised up , saying you fucking bastard.
00:53:56
He had momentarily scared me.
00:53:58
I said I'll choke you instead.
00:54:00
Just let yourself go and it won't be as bad.
00:54:02
Don't struggle, as it'll only make it worse and don't try to
00:54:06
pretend you're out, I can tell.
00:54:08
I started choking him with his t-shirt and twisting the tire
00:54:11
iron.
00:54:11
After I got it tight, I saw he was fully conscious.
00:54:14
He was trying to stay that way.
00:54:16
He started to struggle and I said struggle, baby, it'll only
00:54:20
make your death come faster.
00:54:21
In 15 seconds he was out.
00:54:24
I relaxed and held the shirt and tire iron tight for about
00:54:27
five minutes.
00:54:28
We dumped him in the desert around Palm Springs and went
00:54:31
home.
00:54:32
Speaker 2: Bob's badly decomposed body was found on
00:54:36
September 27th but wasn't identified until July of 1980.
00:54:41
An autopsy concluded that his cause of death was strangulation
00:54:46
.
00:54:46
I'm going to leave off for here .
00:54:48
Remember, Patreon is up and running, so check that out.
00:55:05
It's patreoncom and it's True Crime Uni, or just search for
00:55:07
Patreon, True Crime University and you'll find it.
00:55:09
The voice of Bonnen was done by the one and only Dave Jory,
00:55:14
voice actor extraordinaire and host of Criminal AF.
00:55:18
So if you want to hear more of that awesome voice, check out
00:55:25
Criminal AF.
00:55:28
Speaker 1: Are you a true crime fanatic?
00:55:29
Do you want to know all the morbid details?
00:55:32
Do you think talking about serial killers is fun?
00:55:35
If you answered yes, then you're in the right place and
00:55:39
have finally found your crew.
00:55:40
Join hosts Dave Jari and Garrett Corder from Criminal AF
00:55:44
every Monday to discuss some of the most heinous crimes
00:55:47
imaginable, while having fun doing it.
00:55:49
Dave and Garrett bring a unique and unfiltered approach to
00:55:53
their storytelling that will have you shocked beyond belief
00:55:55
one minute and laughing out of your seat the next.
00:55:58
This is not your grandma's true crime podcast.
00:56:01
While we understand that Criminal AF is not for everyone,
00:56:05
we ask that you at least give it a listen.
00:56:07
And if it's not for you, hey, thanks for checking it out.
00:56:16
See ya, but if it is, welcome to the debauchery.
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