Speaker 1: In this episode we'll be playing Garrett's favorites
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Suck it Up the Torture and Murder of Adrian Jones and the
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crime writing, crime fighting necrophiliac Gerard Schaefer.
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I'm Dave Jari, I'm Garrett Gorder and this is Criminal as
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Fuck.
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What's good?
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All you fuckers, theed and true crime douchebags out there and
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welcome back to another episode of Criminal AF.
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Once again, I'm Dave Jari and with me, as always, is my
00:00:32
co-host, garrett Corder.
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How we doing.
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Before we get started, we'd like to give a shout-out to our
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newest members of the debauched Shay Allen, kate Golana and
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Jared Rhodes.
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Thank you all for becoming a part of our fucked up family.
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A huge shout out also goes out to all of our loyal listeners
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and subscribers for bearing with us as we get Studio Chloroform
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back up and running.
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It's turned out to be quite the task.
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You know, what should have only taken a couple weeks has taken
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double that as we've had very limited time to get together to
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rehab the whole room between our 60-hour work weeks and family
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obligations.
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But there's light at the end of the tunnel.
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In the meantime, we'd like to put out a few episodes this week
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to fill the gap until our next new episode comes out.
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Today.
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We'll post garrett's favorite two episodes, then my two
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favorite episodes and some bonus episodes put out by our friends
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over at fright flick, fmk and true crime university.
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So let's fuck this episode in the mouth with two of Garrett's
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favorite episodes.
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Suck it up in the crime writing , crime fighting, necrophiliac,
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all right.
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So we are going to be talking about a case that I dread
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talking about.
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Now, if you've been following us, you know that you know, both
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Garrett and I, we can't stomach cases that involve children.
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But for this case, uh, we have to put our big boy pants on.
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Uh, you know people.
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You know sometimes people comment about our, our banter
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and and why we do, you know, like mail call and Florida man
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of the day.
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And you know, sometimes we break away from the story to
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tell like a side story, which is kind of funny.
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But you know, whatever it's all because of episodes like this,
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you know we, we make an honest effort to lighten up the
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episodes yeah, it's nobody want.
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Speaker 2: I don't care who you are, nobody wants to sit here,
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even how like.
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I know a lot of people out there and a lot of listeners
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listeners are.
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They love true crime, they're obsessed with it.
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They watch murder porn all fucking day.
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They love a good, tragic story.
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But it gets fucking.
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We look at these on our days off and then we come together
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and then we talk about it.
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Speaker 1: We have to have fun.
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We're not those type of people that can't just have a good time
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when we're together, I have to be able to somehow be able to
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turn a switch and not feel, you know, for what these people are
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going through.
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And you know, and the way we look at it is that if we can end
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each episode where you have, you know, someone has at least
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smiled, laughed or related to something that we said, then I
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think we accomplished something correct, you know, because, uh,
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researching and discussing these stories, uh, they can really
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get inside your head and you know, we, we understand the
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appeal of getting right into the nuts and bolts of an episode
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and but to really dive into the pain and horror like these
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people experience, uh, we believe you have to have some
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balance between really absorbing the details of the case and
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also having some semblance of sanity, you know.
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So we try to break it up like, oh, let's have, you know, fun,
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let's talk, you know, let's joke around, blah, blah, all right.
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End of the story.
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End of the story.
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Yeah, so of the story, yeah, so there I said that, fight me, I
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don't care.
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All right Now, with this brutal fucking story.
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I am going to give another disclaimer before we continue
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Now.
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This episode will discuss extensive evidence of the
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horrific abuse, torture and murder of a seven-year-old child
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.
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We are going to discuss what was done, how long it was done
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for, and the disgusting and tragic end of this young boy's
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life.
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So if you continue past this point, it's on you, okay, just
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putting it out there.
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Speaker 2: It's a story that needs to be told too, though.
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Right, that's what both of us were talking about, this earlier
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.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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Speaker 3: As shitty of a story and to be told too, though
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that's right, that's what both.
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Speaker 2: We were talking about this earlier.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, as shitty of a story and, uh, you know, a
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criminal case can go, it needs to and people need to know about
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.
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Yeah, his story he can't just fade away and fade away into, uh
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, oblivion oblivion right now.
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Yeah, and, and like I was, you know we talked about before.
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The reason this case actually drew me in is because there's so
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many like turns and twists and whatnot, like there's a lack of
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action from people in positions of authority.
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Uh, the fact that both his father and stepmother like when
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you hear the story, like you cannot believe that they only
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got 25 years of life okay, they are eligible for parole.
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In 25 fucking years now they could one day be walking out on
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the streets again.
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And if by telling the story helps keep adrian's memory alive
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, you know, for when those two fucking dirt bags fucking come
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up for parole, then we can pull our personal reservations aside
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and tell the story.
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Yes, sir.
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Again, this story contains extreme depictions of abuse and
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torture of a seven-year-old boy.
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Discretion is strongly advised.
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As a parent, you have two main responsibilities.
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One is to provide your child with basic needs Food, water,
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shelter, clothing needs food, water, shelter, clothing.
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The second is to provide an environment that is safe and
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free from physical, sexual and emotional abuse.
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A child is dependent on you, as an adult, to provide them with
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these basic needs.
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I mean, let's face it, there are good parents and there are
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bad parents, and for children who have parents that fall on
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the ladder, there are measures in place to ensure that the
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child is being cared for and, if not, they are placed into a
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home that can, or that is what's supposed to happen.
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On November 25, 2015, police responded to 5201 North 99th
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Street in Kansas City, kansas, for a call of a reported
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domestic dispute.
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The alleged victim, heather Jones, claimed that her husband,
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michael Jones, abused her and threatened to shoot her.
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Michael, who was located nearby , was taken into custody.
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While investigating the dispute , police spoke with the person
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who made the 911 call.
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The person claimed that Heather called them and said that Mike
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tried to kill her and that her fear was legitimate because she
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made a comment that implied Mike had already killed before.
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With this bit of information, mike was transported to the
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detective bureau and was questioned by Detective Stuart
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Littlefield.
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After being read his Miranda rights, mike had confessed to
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strangling Heather and firing his gun in her direction.
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Littlefield asked about his children and Mike stated that he
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had six of them, all daughters that lived with him.
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Littlefield then asked if he had any children that didn't
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live with him and Mike responded that he had two other that
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didn't live with him, and Mike responded that he had two other
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daughters and a son who lived in Baltimore.
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When pressed again about other children, mike said that he had
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one other, a son named AJ.
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When asked about the location of AJ, mike said he's not with
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us.
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He passed away.
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Mike explained that AJ had behavioral issues and because of
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this he was kept locked in his room.
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And one day he found AJ dead.
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Because Mike was a bondsman, he couldn't get in trouble in his
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room.
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And one day he found AJ dead Because Mike was a bondsman, he
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couldn't get in trouble.
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So rather than reporting his death, mike fed AJ's body to the
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pigs.
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He then explained that he recovered the bones of his son
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and placed them in a black plastic tub which was still
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located in the small barn where the pigs were housed.
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Concurrently, heather was interviewed by the initial
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responding, detective, brad Lancaster.
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During the interview, heather became emotional and told
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Detective Lancaster that she had information that would put her
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husband, mike Jones away for life.
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She explained that there was a seven-year-old boy who was no
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longer quote in the mix and that her husband killed him, fed his
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body to the pigs and disposed of his remains.
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Body to the pigs and disposed of his remains.
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She claimed that she never saw what Mike had done with the body
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and stated that Mike initially told her that he brought AJ to
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the hospital.
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All of this, as we will learn, was a lie, and Heather's
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emotional breakdown, describing how Mike had killed little AJ,
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was all played out without a single tear running down her
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face, a planned charade to distance herself from her
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husband and the pure evil which was about to be exposed, an evil
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that put Heather smack dab in the middle Of this young boy's
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torturous demise the proof captured in photographs and on
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over 30 security cameras placed throughout the house and
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perimeter.
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Even Heather implicated herself in the abuse of seven-year-old
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Adrian Jones through a Facebook group she administered, boasting
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about years of neglect and torture, beginning when Adrian
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was just three years old.
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Surely, if someone were to have witnessed such abuse, they
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would report it and the appropriate authorities would
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intervene and ensure that the boy was placed in a loving and
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caring home, free of abuse and neglect.
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Sadly, adrian's abuse was reported numerous times and well
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documented in two different states over nearly a five-year
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period.
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Yet, time and again, the services that were put in place
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to protect children, like.
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Adrian failed him Over and over and over.
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Ultimately, as Adrian's maternal family will contest,
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led to his death.
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So many opportunities were missed to save this baby's life.
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How did we get to this point?
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What led to years of Adrian's torture?
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Let's take a look into the short life of a seven-year-old
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boy who had dreams of one day becoming a football player.
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Piano plays softly.
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Adrian Jones was born in 2008 to Michael Jones and Deanna
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Pierce.
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Now people covering this story and you know we'll throw
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ourselves in there as well Like already failed this boy because
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nobody could get his fucking birthday set.
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So some have it as September, some have it as May.
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I've seen it in June.
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Several sites even have his birth as 2002.
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Okay, do the fucking math.
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2002 would put him at like fucking a lot older than 7 years
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old in 2015, okay.
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So I don't know where the fuck he got 2002 from but anyway,
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that sets this episode up so much too.
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The fact that we don't even have a birthday for this kid shows
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how insignificant he was in the grand scheme of things but from
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what I can make out of all of this is the date shows how
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insignificant he was in the grand scheme of things.
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But from what I can make out of all of this is the date of May
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15th 2008, which seems to be mathematically correct.
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It puts him at seven years old in 2015.
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For all intents and purposes, I've read that Deanna was a
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loving and caring mother to Adrian and her two other
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children until Mike had cheated and left her for another one.
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This woman actually turned out to be one of the subjects of
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this story, heather.
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After the split, deanna kind of went down a dark path.
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She began drinking, doing drugs .
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She would stay out all hours of the night, sometimes not even
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coming home until the next day.
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All the while the children were home alone and I think at this
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point you know Adrian's like one , two years old.
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So the home would become an endless turnstile of men in and
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out of their lives for the next year or two, always a red flag,
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yeah.
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So Deanna would eventually find a man who was willing to stick
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it out with her and support her and her children, which seems
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wonderful.
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You know, things seem to be okay now, things kind of going
00:14:36
back into you know the fold and whatnot, until it was discovered
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that this man was sexually abusing her kids.
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So he's out.
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Okay.
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Now deanna starts spiraling out of control again, and this led
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to numerous reports of child endangerment and abandonment.
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In september of 2011, adrian and his two siblings were
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removed from the home after an investigation confirmed that the
00:15:00
children were endangered and left alone for extended periods
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of time, with Adrian wearing soiled diapers the entire time.
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She was gone with no food or water.
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Deanna's mother, judy Conway, petitioned for custody of the
00:15:16
children.
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She was granted custody of the two girls, but Mike came forward
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and, since he was Adrian's biological father, he was
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granted full custody, despite Judy's attempts to keep the
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children together.
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All right.
00:15:34
So now, within three months of two year old Adrian moving in
00:15:45
with his father, in December of 2011, the Kansas DCF workers
00:15:47
began receiving phone calls regarding the well-being of the
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children.
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Okay, so they go from one parent who is not up to parent
00:15:51
skills and now going to another parent who is similar.
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These calls stated that the father, mike, had guns laying
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all around the house and the stepmom, heather, was observed
00:16:02
to be high on drugs around the children.
00:16:04
More calls came in saying that the children appeared to be
00:16:09
malnourished and had observable physical injuries.
00:16:13
Further investigations were conducted, which claims that
00:16:17
Heather would hit her stepchildren Only her
00:16:20
stepchildren, not her own children.
00:16:21
Speaker 2: Yeah, Stepchildren, I mean you see that all the time,
00:16:23
all the time, yeah.
00:16:24
Stepchildren, I mean you see that all across, all the time,
00:16:25
yeah.
00:16:26
Speaker 1: You know, mike had also had biological daughters
00:16:29
living there at the time as well , and Heather.
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She was reported to be hitting these children with objects and
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closed fists.
00:16:37
Quote unquote the social worker determined that the claims were
00:16:41
unsubstantiated.
00:16:44
Speaker 2: This is going to be a trend.
00:16:45
Obviously, in this episode, DCF does a lot of good.
00:16:49
They do.
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Speaker 1: I personally know people who work in DCF.
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Speaker 2: There's some good DCF social workers, but they also I
00:16:58
don't know if it's lack of funding, lack of support they
00:17:02
have a lot of cases and certain things that they can't touch.
00:17:05
But I also know a lot of police officers too that like actual
00:17:10
accounted stories that they've told to me and stuff like that,
00:17:12
and I've heard a lot that police kind of don't get along with
00:17:15
DCF a lot.
00:17:16
They're the ones going to those calls where they get caught,
00:17:19
where DCF get called, and they get upset because a lot of
00:17:23
people get their kids taken when they don't deserve it.
00:17:27
Yeah, and there's a lot of people that deserve to get their
00:17:30
kids taken and they don't.
00:17:31
And they don't Right.
00:17:32
So and they're there, the police officers are there on their
00:17:35
worst day.
00:17:36
They see the house in the way it's not.
00:17:39
You know what I mean.
00:17:39
Yeah, when you give a shit happens, yes.
00:17:42
Yeah, when you get the shit happens, yes.
00:17:43
And they see it in its raw element, where a DCF worker
00:17:46
gives a two day notice before they show up and they they come
00:17:50
in, gives them time to hide stuff, clean up, do things like
00:17:54
that.
00:17:54
So if the system is broken, I feel like it's so.
00:17:58
I'm not, I'm not trying to attack DCF workers Right In
00:18:01
general.
00:18:01
But I think it needs to be looked at as a whole, because we
00:18:05
hear these stories all the time Gabriel Fernandez, adrian Jones
00:18:09
, the list goes on and on.
00:18:13
Speaker 1: And just knowing, like I said, I know people who
00:18:16
work in DCF and whatnot.
00:18:17
There's a lot of fucking legal red tape.
00:18:20
Speaker 2: Oh, no for sure.
00:18:21
It takes a lot for the government to take a child right
00:18:26
from a household.
00:18:26
It does.
00:18:27
Speaker 1: It does take a lot and just by, and you know, and
00:18:29
this is like one case right here is like when we're looking at
00:18:31
at this particular case, uh, the grandmother, the maternal
00:18:36
grandmother, was like give me all the children, yeah, just
00:18:38
give them to me.
00:18:39
Uh, I got this, you know what I mean.
00:18:40
And but because mike was the biological father, he has first
00:18:46
dibs, which is understandable, yeah, but when the person who
00:18:51
has first dibs is a fucking shit stain, yeah, you might want to
00:18:57
fucking put that on.
00:18:58
Speaker 2: Exactly Like you said , though, red tape, yeah, so
00:19:01
unfortunately that's what it is.
00:19:02
Speaker 1: Yep, all right.
00:19:03
So unfortunately that's what it is.
00:19:08
Yep, all right.
00:19:08
So, even though they they determined that the claims were
00:19:10
unsubstantiated, they did note in the file that adrian had
00:19:14
noticeable bruising on his face and had a black eye at three
00:19:20
years old.
00:19:21
But yet the claims that one's unsubstantiated, all right.
00:19:26
It is also reported that heather's biological son is
00:19:29
removed from the home at this time now.
00:19:31
It's important to remember this aspect because this will come
00:19:35
up later.
00:19:35
Okay, a kansas social services report states that although mike
00:19:41
uses physical force on the children as well, it does not
00:19:45
rise to the level of abuse by Heather.
00:19:48
Okay, so she's, she's definitely the one that has
00:19:52
something going on.
00:19:53
You know what I mean and you know we really don't go into it
00:19:58
much, you know in our notes here , but you know I mean there's
00:20:01
there's claims that Heather was basically running a fucking meth
00:20:04
factory out of her fucking house, selling drugs, doing all
00:20:08
that kind of shit.
00:20:08
So I mean she's, she's just a shady fucking character and, to
00:20:12
be perfectly honest, it was fucking Mike.
00:20:14
Speaker 2: I mean, they're pretty much confirmed career
00:20:15
criminals, right.
00:20:16
Speaker 1: So, so Mike tells DCF that he and Heather are
00:20:20
splitting up and she will no longer have contact with the
00:20:23
children.
00:20:24
He and Heather are splitting up and she will no longer have
00:20:28
contact with the children.
00:20:29
Now, with this safety plan in place which was a man, which was
00:20:30
basically a promissory note stating that Heather is not to
00:20:34
be around the children, they remained in the custody of Mike.
00:20:37
Ok, so I mean, I'm sure anybody who's who's really heard story
00:20:43
before the term pinky promise has been thrown around.
00:20:47
This is basically a pinky promise.
00:20:50
Speaker 2: Especially when you're trying to pinky promise
00:20:53
on a relationship.
00:20:54
Yeah, people do stupid stuff, right when they're trying to get
00:20:57
back with their ex.
00:20:58
I mean everyone can relate or has seen it or had somebody that
00:21:00
they know yeah.
00:21:00
Yep, everyone can relate or has seen it or had somebody that
00:21:03
they know.
00:21:04
Speaker 1: Yeah, so this was basically a pinky promise
00:21:07
between Mike and DCF that Heather was no longer going to
00:21:09
be around the children.
00:21:10
Okay, and yeah, we'll find out that that's not the case.
00:21:15
All right, unbeknownst to DCF in Kansas that Mike and Heather
00:21:20
actually reunited shortly after.
00:21:22
Okay, there you go.
00:21:24
And it wasn't discovered by the state until 2013 when a report
00:21:29
was filed claiming that Adrian was not receiving proper medical
00:21:31
care.
00:21:32
All right, once this claim was filed and started to be
00:21:36
investigated, the family upped and moved to Missouri.
00:21:40
So nothing was ever done with that.
00:21:42
But it didn't take long for the missouri dcf to be come familiar
00:21:49
with adrian jones.
00:21:50
In 2013, after claims of physical abuse, adrian, at just
00:21:56
five years old, admitted in an interview with a missouri social
00:21:59
worker and a police officer that his father would kick him
00:22:03
in the head and sometimes he would feel bones sticking out.
00:22:07
Okay, this is a five-year-old telling a social worker and a
00:22:11
police officer my father kicks me in the head and sometimes I
00:22:15
feel bones sticking out.
00:22:16
Uh, he admitted mike would punch him in the stomach as well
00:22:20
as heather would pull his ears just to hurt him.
00:22:24
Adrian continued to tell him hold on, dude, this is fucking,
00:22:37
this is fucked.
00:22:37
So Adrian continued to tell the social worker that his daddy
00:22:41
and mommy wouldn't give him any food.
00:22:42
So, after not noticing any observable bruising, the social
00:22:55
worker marked Adrian as high risk but safe and simply told
00:23:00
Mike and Heather to remove the lock from his room and Adrian
00:23:03
was returned home.
00:23:04
High risk but safe.
00:23:09
Speaker 2: You're going to hear that a lot.
00:23:10
Oh, that's so unfortunate All right.
00:23:12
Speaker 1: So, basically, adrian was at high risk of physical,
00:23:16
emotional and or sexual abuse, but was safe at the time of the
00:23:22
investigation.
00:23:22
Okay, okay, dude, this is going to be fucking rough and I
00:23:28
apologize ahead of time, but alright.
00:23:31
So February 2014, mike told a social worker that he was at his
00:23:36
wit's end when it came to parenting Adrian, and he
00:23:40
suggested that he would probably be better off in state's care.
00:23:45
Speaker 2: So a voluntary surrender at the end of the day.
00:23:47
Correct?
00:23:48
Speaker 1: Yes, that's like Yep, listen, I bit off more than I
00:23:52
can chew.
00:23:54
Speaker 2: But honestly, if you look back, you have a record
00:23:57
across state lines of multiple calls, multiple problems, home
00:24:03
visits where you, there was a fucking lock on the door to his
00:24:07
room right, and then now the father the one who got primary
00:24:12
care tells you he can't do this anymore and obviously keep going
00:24:18
to the story.
00:24:19
It's just ugh.
00:24:22
Speaker 1: So the social worker told Mike, if you do that,
00:24:26
you'll be arrested for child abandonment.
00:24:28
Correct, and because Mike was a bondsman at the time.
00:24:32
If you're not familiar with a bondsman, they work, they need
00:24:35
to carry weapons.
00:24:35
They you know, they're kind of like the shady.
00:24:40
They're definitely shady.
00:24:42
Speaker 2: I always say that they're just as bad as the
00:24:44
people sitting in the courthouse waiting to go into criminal
00:24:46
trial a hundred percent bondsman's are there, but for
00:24:49
some reason they're legally fucking, you know dude, every
00:24:53
bondsman.
00:24:53
You see, like if you get a speeding ticket, expect like and
00:24:55
you just see them over there like like scalping basically
00:25:00
it's crazy.
00:25:01
Speaker 1: They're just, they're hoping they're hoping yep, all
00:25:05
right.
00:25:05
So because he was a bondsman, he couldn't risk being arrested,
00:25:08
so they kept custody of adrian and he returned home.
00:25:12
He remained unknown.
00:25:13
One month later, dcf was contacted by a psychiatric
00:25:18
hospital, saying adrian was dropped off by his parents days
00:25:21
ago and they haven't checked in on him, nor can they make
00:25:25
contact with them.
00:25:26
So basically, they did exactly what they were going to do they
00:25:30
dropped him off at some hospital .
00:25:31
The hospital staff told the social worker that Adrian is an
00:25:36
easy going kid and doesn't exhibit any behavioral problems,
00:25:40
as his parents had explained.
00:25:42
So they speculate that the real issue is actually his parents
00:25:44
had explained.
00:25:45
So they speculate that the real issue is actually his parents,
00:25:48
and his demeanor changes when Adrian is with them.
00:25:50
When Mike and Heather were finally reached, heather said
00:25:54
they'll take the abandonment charge.
00:25:56
We're not picking them up.
00:25:57
Okay, which would have been a fucking godsend.
00:26:03
Speaker 2: Dude.
00:26:04
Now see, that's where I was saying the system needs to
00:26:07
change earlier in this conversation, Because I feel
00:26:11
like there's a lot of parents that are overwhelmed and can't
00:26:14
do it and handle the situation wrong.
00:26:17
They're afraid to get charged.
00:26:19
So they don't have the child's best interest at heart, they're
00:26:25
more afraid to go to jail for child abandonment.
00:26:27
Now, granted, I don't think they shouldn't.
00:26:30
I'm with it, they should be charged for child.
00:26:32
That's child abandonment for sure.
00:26:33
By definition, that's child abandonment.
00:26:36
Speaker 1: And the ultimate goal for social services, I would
00:26:39
believe, is to try to keep the family dynamic intact.
00:26:44
Speaker 2: Correct To try to keep the family dynamic intact.
00:26:45
Correct, that's probably their mission statement.
00:26:46
You know what I mean, right?
00:26:48
But it's one of those things where it's kind of a gray line.
00:26:57
Speaker 1: That's the underlying circumstances where you'd be
00:26:59
like you know what?
00:27:00
Yeah, you're right, you don't deserve this kid.
00:27:04
Speaker 2: And we're taking him To save a child's life.
00:27:05
I think you know what.
00:27:06
Yeah, you're right, you don't deserve this kid and we're
00:27:08
taking him.
00:27:08
All right, so save a child's life.
00:27:09
I think, yeah, you know what I mean.
00:27:09
Maybe, maybe we can drop the child abandonment charge Right.
00:27:11
Speaker 1: So the social worker convinces Mike and Heather to
00:27:14
pick up Adrian, and they do, and he remains in the home.
00:27:18
The ruling of this claim was that Adrian was high risk but
00:27:25
safe.
00:27:25
In October of 2014, a report comes into DCF that Adrian has
00:27:34
been witnessed eating out of a garbage can.
00:27:37
After an investigation, adrian again was marked as high risk
00:27:45
but safe.
00:27:45
Shortly after this claim, the family moves back to Kansas,
00:27:50
into the rented home in Kansas City which would soon become
00:27:55
Adrian's death site.
00:27:56
It was here that both Mike and Heather's abuse would escalate,
00:28:01
with Adrian receiving the majority of the torture.
00:28:04
We can't even call abuse anymore, because what happens
00:28:09
from here on out is nothing but disgusting, horrific torture of
00:28:15
a child.
00:28:19
Now we mentioned earlier that heather had her own facebook
00:28:21
group.
00:28:21
Uh, the group was called fuck everybody else or fuck everyone
00:28:26
else.
00:28:26
So here people would gripe about whatever was pissing them
00:28:29
off.
00:28:29
It sounds like anybody, any fucking crime.
00:28:31
You know?
00:28:32
Community fucking facebook group.
00:28:33
You know that's why.
00:28:35
Uh, what's that thing that was going around?
00:28:37
The only try that in a small town or whatever.
00:28:39
I'm like we're from a small town.
00:28:41
If you hear the fucking people griping in the fucking Facebook
00:28:44
group.
00:28:45
Yeah, you know exactly what the fuck, but anyway, yeah, this is
00:28:49
the side stuff that we okay, you know we need this little
00:28:52
little laugh for this one, but anyway, all right, bring it back
00:28:56
.
00:28:56
So here, people would gripe about whatever was pissing them
00:28:59
off, and Heather's gripes pretty much only consisted of her
00:29:02
bitching and complaining about Adrian.
00:29:04
And Heather's gripes pretty much only consisted of her
00:29:05
bitching and complaining about Adrian.
00:29:06
A post was made by Heather on December 24th 2014.
00:29:09
It stated I have a psychopath I'm giving away for free.
00:29:14
He broke out last night.
00:29:17
All right, that alone, just fucking like what he broke out
00:29:22
last night.
00:29:22
He broke out last night.
00:29:23
Speaker 2: Poor kid had to eat out of the trash because he was
00:29:25
dude.
00:29:25
That honestly out of all like the thought of not feeding your
00:29:30
child and starvation is so like maniacal.
00:29:35
Speaker 1: Basic fucking lead.
00:29:37
Speaker 2: It's a basic the fact that a kid would just be
00:29:39
starving and just asking for food.
00:29:41
Yep, oh man.
00:29:44
Speaker 1: That's crazy.
00:29:44
When there's food available, that's your just feed your food.
00:29:46
Speaker 2: Oh man, that's crazy.
00:29:47
When there's food available, that's your Just feed your
00:29:48
fucking.
00:29:48
Like oh man dude, I like.
00:29:51
Speaker 1: Yep, all right.
00:29:52
So he broke out last night and fucked my kitchen up and
00:29:57
everything I had baked.
00:29:59
I'm beyond pissed.
00:30:01
And now he's running laps around my pool and doing
00:30:04
push-ups until I get tired, unless someone wants to come
00:30:08
take him Okay.
00:30:12
Speaker 2: She immediately.
00:30:12
What a great Facebook group, by the way.
00:30:14
Yeah, yeah it sounds.
00:30:17
I can like see the threads going right now.
00:30:20
Speaker 1: She immediately follows Citizens here in this.
00:30:22
Yeah, she immediately follows that post with I can't shoot him
00:30:26
, unfortunately, but I can work the shit out of him until I feel
00:30:31
better, jesus.
00:30:32
So this is 2014.
00:30:34
Adrian, six years old.
00:30:35
Ok, the following day, on Christmas, mind you, she posts
00:30:44
I'm so beyond done with this kid .
00:30:46
Last night he chased me with a fucking kitchen knife trying to
00:30:50
stab me until I jumped the counter in pain and all and
00:30:54
tackled his ass.
00:30:55
Damn man, are you sure y'all don't want him?
00:31:00
I'll pay child support.
00:31:03
Speaker 2: OK, if only could he got to, if he could have got to
00:31:05
him.
00:31:05
Man pay child support.
00:31:05
Okay, if only could he got to, if he could have got to him.
00:31:07
Man.
00:31:08
Speaker 1: Fucking stab that fucking bitch, jesus Christ.
00:31:11
You fucking rooting for this kid.
00:31:12
To fucking just knife her, alright, he'd still be alive.
00:31:16
Alright, so she continues.
00:31:19
Seriously, he's a real.
00:31:20
He's for real, a psychopath.
00:31:22
I'm not even kidding.
00:31:23
Every day with this child is like being a guard in a prison
00:31:27
yard.
00:31:28
His bio mom fucked this kid up.
00:31:31
Like seriously.
00:31:32
He kills everything he comes in contact with.
00:31:35
Speaker 2: I'm so confused.
00:31:37
Which at this point they're living together?
00:31:40
For how long?
00:31:41
The bio mom has been out of the picture since he was two right
00:31:46
Two or three.
00:31:46
How did the biological mother fuck a two or three year old's
00:31:51
mind up To where now?
00:31:53
Yeah, Stop.
00:31:55
Speaker 1: Stop.
00:31:56
Speaker 2: You sound crazy.
00:32:00
Speaker 1: You fucked this kid's mind up and the thing is
00:32:04
occasionally throughout this whole time I really didn't touch
00:32:08
much on it, but occasionally the kids were allowed to see the
00:32:14
biological mother and the grandmother and you know
00:32:19
supervised visits and everything , and social workers at the time
00:32:24
would say that Adrian would just perk up.
00:32:28
Speaker 2: Yeah, cause it was probably is like only the light,
00:32:30
right.
00:32:32
Speaker 1: So, regardless of what the mother did before and
00:32:34
and and the horrible thing, yeah , Banning a child in abandonment
00:32:36
, it's inexcusable.
00:32:38
But he wasn't fucking tortured or abused.
00:32:42
You know what I mean?
00:32:44
Speaker 2: So whatever, obviously too is, people don't
00:32:47
know, but he wasn't fucking tortured or abused, correct, you
00:32:49
know what I mean?
00:32:50
Correct, so whatever, obviously too, people don't know that all
00:32:51
the children in the house were homeschooled Right, so I feel
00:32:54
like school is probably one of the places that kids get a break
00:32:58
from you know if they're being abused at home or whatever.
00:33:01
Like they probably like going to school.
00:33:02
Yeah, they probably enjoy that little.
00:33:03
Probably like going to school.
00:33:04
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:33:05
Speaker 2: They probably enjoy that little eight hour gap where
00:33:07
.
00:33:08
Speaker 1: Yeah, and not only that.
00:33:09
People can see them Also.
00:33:10
Speaker 2: Yeah, People also are you know what I mean on the
00:33:13
lookout for them, and teachers will call oh yeah, so it's.
00:33:16
Speaker 1: Yeah, they're required.
00:33:17
What is it called Required reporter or something?
00:33:20
Something, yeah, like if they even suspect that they are
00:33:23
required by law to report it and it's.
00:33:26
Speaker 2: It's shitty too, because you know that his
00:33:28
parents knew this, yeah, and that's why they decided to
00:33:31
homeschool their children, which all right.
00:33:35
Speaker 1: So just to go back just a little bit to catch up.
00:33:37
His bio mom fucked this kid up like seriously he kills
00:33:40
everything he comes in contact with.
00:33:42
So another user chimes in she's like is this the push-up kid?
00:33:49
Laugh my fucking ass off from your security camera.
00:33:52
When I was like what the fuck is that so people?
00:33:57
She's sharing security footage of Adrian being punished, abused
00:34:03
, tortured on this Facebook group.
00:34:06
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:34:08
Speaker 1: Do you?
00:34:08
Speaker 2: think they were making him do the pushups.
00:34:09
You know what I mean.
00:34:12
Like from a, from watching a ring camera, see a kid do
00:34:16
pushups in the yard.
00:34:16
You're like this kid's crazy or whatever.
00:34:18
Maybe they were forcing him to do pushups.
00:34:20
You never know.
00:34:21
It could have been part of the abuse.
00:34:23
Speaker 1: No, it was a hundred percent.
00:34:24
To do push-ups, you never know.
00:34:27
It could have been part of the abuse.
00:34:28
No, it was 100, yeah, yeah and uh, yeah, so yeah, like just
00:34:32
just another user, the, so this all comes from like a, a warrant
00:34:34
.
00:34:34
Uh, that you know I came across that another person, another
00:34:38
human being, can say is that the push-up kid?
00:34:41
Laugh my fucking ass off.
00:34:44
You gotta love social media, dude.
00:34:48
So then another user posted Merry Christmas, but I can't
00:34:55
take him.
00:34:55
I have no problems pulling a carol and have him look at the
00:35:00
flowers, what the fuck?
00:35:02
So for those that don't know, this is a reference from season
00:35:06
4, episode 14 of the walking dead.
00:35:08
The episode was called the grove and where this was where
00:35:13
one of the main characters, carol, tells a young girl who
00:35:17
has, who just got bit.
00:35:18
Speaker 2: Yes, I remember, okay , I remember this.
00:35:19
Who has?
00:35:20
Oh my god, well, no, no.
00:35:23
Speaker 1: The little girl ended up killing her sister.
00:35:25
Yeah, just because she's fucking crazy.
00:35:27
So Carol takes this little girl out into like a field and tells
00:35:31
the girl to look at the flowers , and then Carol shoots the girl
00:35:35
in the back of the head.
00:35:36
Okay, so Heather replies to this comment.
00:35:39
Look at the flowers.
00:35:40
Yeah.
00:35:41
I'm about to pull that shit.
00:35:43
Okay, look at the flowers.
00:35:45
Yeah, I'm about to pull that shit.
00:35:46
Okay.
00:35:46
Now the posts continue at length, with Heather making
00:35:47
comments such as pain compliance doesn't work.
00:35:50
I've tried leather belts and that shit don't work.
00:35:55
I cuff his little ass and he unhinged.
00:35:57
A pair of my police issued handcuffs, scared to look at my
00:36:01
phone, implying this security cameras, afraid I might have to
00:36:05
feed some pigs a body.
00:36:07
This is in December of 28, december 28th 2014.
00:36:13
Okay, again, holy shit, this is going to lead into something.
00:36:19
All right.
00:36:21
Speaker 2: This is on social media.
00:36:22
This is in a fucking small town Facebook group Yep, yep.
00:36:24
So during the fucking small town Facebook group Yep, yep.
00:36:26
Speaker 1: So, during the time of these Facebook posts, mike
00:36:30
and Heather began to document the torture of Adrian, sharing
00:36:34
photos between each other.
00:36:35
Ok, so you think in a in a healthy family dynamic, the
00:36:43
husband and wife like oh, here's little Bobby at a soccer match.
00:36:48
Let me share pictures with you.
00:36:49
Yeah, this family dynamic between Mike and Heather is I
00:36:54
just punched your fucking six year old kid in the face.
00:36:57
Look at this fucking black eye.
00:36:59
I just gave him Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, laugh, laugh, laugh.
00:37:02
And then he, the father, mike, would do the same, sending
00:37:05
fucking Pictures to him.
00:37:07
Speaker 2: And then there's that One up Thing going on too.
00:37:10
Yes, what a sadistic.
00:37:11
Speaker 1: These are two Grown ass fucking adults, a biological
00:37:14
father Documenting, sharing, laughing About torture Of a
00:37:22
fucking child.
00:37:23
Okay, alright, so the Disturbing images about torture
00:37:24
of a fucking child.
00:37:25
Okay, alright, so the disturbing images which can
00:37:30
which they can be found on Google if you so choose to look
00:37:35
includes photos.
00:37:36
I wouldn't recommend it.
00:37:37
No, don't Includes photos of Adrian duct taped to an
00:37:41
inversion table with his arms restrained above his head.
00:37:45
Another photo shows severe swelling and bruising around his
00:37:49
ankles and elbows from being held upside down and restrained
00:37:53
on the inversion table overnight .
00:37:54
Ok, now again, I'm going to remind you these are not photos
00:38:00
from a DCF investigation.
00:38:01
These are photos taken by Adrian's own father fucking
00:38:07
Shitty McShitstain.
00:38:08
Shitty McShitstain and his stepmother, cunty McCuntface.
00:38:15
Speaker 2: Because that's, honestly.
00:38:16
Speaker 1: Yeah, alright, so we got Shitty McShitstain and Cunty
00:38:19
McCuntface.
00:38:20
So there is a photo of Adrian with cutting boards placed on
00:38:25
his chest and back and held in place with bandages, while his
00:38:29
fingers are forced spread apart, all in the effort to cause
00:38:34
major discomfort.
00:38:35
And he was left in these positions for hours on end.
00:38:40
Speaker 2: You know what?
00:38:40
You know what the amazing part about this is Is the resilience
00:38:43
of children.
00:38:44
Kids are resilient as shit.
00:38:47
They are when you don't experience like life and like
00:38:50
the troubles of just being an adult going through like when
00:38:54
that's all you know and that's what you were bred into.
00:38:56
The fact that he was able to just go through this is mind
00:39:01
blowing.
00:39:01
It just it just goes to show you that you, I feel like the
00:39:06
best way I can, I feel like anybody, any, anybody listening
00:39:08
and all that stuff.
00:39:08
Everybody, nobody makes it through childhood unscathed,
00:39:12
correct.
00:39:13
There's always something, some sort of trauma, some sort of
00:39:17
everything, and I think that really resonates to who you are,
00:39:22
who you become as a person later on in life.
00:39:24
Yes, and I think that I don't know, maybe it's the way that
00:39:29
you're designed.
00:39:30
I think, like if you look in nature right, like how usually
00:39:33
babies get picked off as, as as big, like it's it's something
00:39:37
bred into people to make children as resilient as they
00:39:40
are.
00:39:41
Speaker 1: And that's why it's it's it's survival, it's correct
00:39:45
, yeah, it's.
00:39:46
Speaker 2: you know you have to in a modern society with
00:39:48
outstanding parents.
00:39:49
Like I said, regardless, it doesn't matter if you've had
00:39:52
both your two loving parents that love you immensely, who
00:39:54
stayed together their whole life , who did this you well, it
00:39:57
doesn't matter.
00:39:58
There's some sort of trauma now .
00:40:00
The levels of it vary, but it'll stick with you to forever.
00:40:05
Speaker 1: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:40:06
No, I 100% agree, because I came from an extremely stable
00:40:10
household, yeah same.
00:40:12
Speaker 2: For sure.
00:40:12
Speaker 1: You know my parents were fucking amazing.
00:40:14
Very Ozzie and Harriet I don't know if you're familiar with
00:40:18
that term, like 50s.
00:40:19
You know, upbringing whatever.
00:40:22
And you know I have trauma from my childhood.
00:40:26
Yeah, of course, everybody, everybody does.
00:40:29
Speaker 2: That's what I mean.
00:40:30
You don't come through unscathed.
00:40:31
It's just different levels and it just goes to show how
00:40:34
resilient children are.
00:40:36
It really is Because this kid at this point has nobody looking
00:40:41
out for his interests, who's trapped and who probably there's
00:40:45
still.
00:40:45
All I'm saying is there's probably still shining moments
00:40:48
into this kid's life where he's happy, even in the the, the shit
00:40:53
for sure.
00:40:54
Speaker 1: Yeah, so they.
00:40:55
Uh.
00:40:55
There's another photo of Adrian and he has a large, bloody,
00:41:01
gaping wound going down the side of his face.
00:41:04
Fuck, uh, large, bloody, gaping wound going down the side of
00:41:07
his face.
00:41:07
The accompanying video shows that he was stabbed in the side
00:41:11
of the face with a broken broom handle, either by his father or
00:41:16
an uncle who was staying with them during this time and was
00:41:20
witness to all this torture.
00:41:21
It was one of those two.
00:41:24
So we're bringing the family into yeah fuck man so, as we
00:41:29
stated, there was constant video surveillance throughout the
00:41:31
home documenting adrian's 24-hour torture.
00:41:34
Uh, he was forced to stay outside all night in cold
00:41:38
temperatures with tiki torches, duct taped to his hands and he
00:41:42
would have walk, do laps around the pool with these tiki torches
00:41:46
all night long.
00:41:48
If he stopped, sat laid down, he would face further.
00:41:53
Speaker 2: What do you think the threshold is for a punishment
00:41:55
at this point?
00:41:56
At this point, it doesn't matter, it's something so
00:41:59
minuscule.
00:41:59
I have a six-year-old son right now.
00:42:01
Yes, they can be annoying, for sure.
00:42:04
Oh yeah, oh yeah, yeah yeah, but it doesn't justify the
00:42:09
punishment.
00:42:10
Like that's the thing that blows my mind about this whole
00:42:13
case.
00:42:13
I want to know the details.
00:42:14
I want to know what justified each punishment and the severity
00:42:19
of it.
00:42:19
I'm going to tell you.
00:42:21
Speaker 1: Ugh, keep going.
00:42:22
Okay, and it comes down to one single defining moment.
00:42:27
And well, we'll go into it, all right.
00:42:33
So, yeah, so he was forced to walk around in cold temperatures
00:42:37
all night with tiki torches, duct taped to his hands.
00:42:40
There's video of Adrian standing outside on a cold night
00:42:45
with nothing but a t-shirt and shorts, with his hands
00:42:48
handcuffed behind his back, with what appears to be a small
00:42:52
container of applesauce on the ground in front of him.
00:42:54
Apparently this was his meal for the day.
00:42:57
Uh, adrian kneels down 60 calories yeah.
00:43:03
Adrian kneels down on the ground and leans over and picks up the
00:43:07
bowl with his teeth.
00:43:08
He tilts his head back, hoping that whatever applesauce that's
00:43:14
in there will slide into his mouth.
00:43:16
Meanwhile, while this is happening, you can hear Heather
00:43:22
in the background telling one of her daughters that there's dirt
00:43:26
and bugs in the applesauce, and then she laughs.
00:43:30
There's further photos of Adrian.
00:43:37
He's standing neck deep in a disgusting dirty green pool in
00:43:42
the middle of the night, once again forced outside.
00:43:46
By now you can begin to see that Adrian, who was once a
00:43:51
full-bodied, healthy, vibrant three-year-old when he came into
00:43:56
the care of fucking McShitstain and old cuntface, is now an
00:44:01
emaciated shell of his former self, literal skin and bones.
00:44:07
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's also a picture of him at this point
00:44:10
online too.
00:44:12
Speaker 1: That will make you definitely think.
00:44:14
Because Adrian kept escaping his locked room to sneak food,
00:44:19
mike rigged a cell like a prison cell in the stand-up shower
00:44:24
stall, securing a large sheet of plywood to the wall and
00:44:29
trapping Adrian inside.
00:44:32
Speaker 2: So basic survival at this point.
00:44:34
The kid's just trying to get something to eat.
00:44:36
Yep.
00:44:37
Speaker 1: So he's basically in a shower stall.
00:44:40
So I'm sure everybody's seen what a stand-up shower stall
00:44:44
looks like.
00:44:44
It's not very big.
00:44:45
I mean, I know if I took a shower right now I'd be fucking
00:44:48
banging my elbows into the fucking wall and shit you know.
00:44:50
But yeah, so they basically put up a huge sheet of plywood,
00:44:55
fucking bolted it to the wall.
00:44:56
He was only allowed out so many times a day, if at all.
00:44:59
Um, yeah, basically this was his living space, a shower.
00:45:04
Um, it was inside this makeshift prison cell, uh, that
00:45:11
Adrian would experience some of his worst torture.
00:45:14
Uh, the other children of the home would later report that
00:45:20
they would hear Heather going into the shower stall and begin
00:45:24
beating Adrian for no reason.
00:45:25
There were times the children would hear Heather strangling
00:45:29
Adrian to near death.
00:45:30
One time the children thought he was actually dead and Heather
00:45:36
had to resuscitate him.
00:45:40
Speaker 2: Alright, so Shit, at that point I would have just
00:45:44
took the death yeah.
00:45:47
Speaker 1: This next example of torture I can't even fathom and
00:45:52
this one's going to be extremely tough to get through.
00:45:55
I'm just going to put that right in front of you.
00:45:56
Put that up right in front.
00:45:57
So this torture involved a handheld high voltage taser
00:46:02
Torture.
00:46:02
It involved a Handheld high voltage taser Both Fucking
00:46:07
McShitstain and Fucking old cuntface, would Repeatedly tase
00:46:11
Adrian, whether for punishment or for fun, for their own sick,
00:46:14
twisted pleasure.
00:46:15
There's A lot more to this.
00:46:18
So there's a particular way that tasers Work and To Do it.
00:46:27
The way that tasers work and to do it the way that's made to
00:46:29
work is it's meant for direct contact.
00:46:33
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've been days before yeah.
00:46:35
Speaker 1: Direct contact to the skin, to the body, wherever,
00:46:40
and with that it sends a jolt of electricity through the body.
00:46:43
If used for self-defense, it's a good way to temporarily
00:46:47
disable an attacker, or whatever .
00:46:49
Now this is where it gets fucking dark.
00:46:53
When you hold the taser about an inch away from the body, the
00:47:00
electricity from the taser it arcs.
00:47:02
So it doesn't send a jolt, as intended.
00:47:06
What it does, it creates a scolding hot.
00:47:11
Yeah, it's a burn Lightning bolt.
00:47:13
Basically, that fries your fucking skin.
00:47:16
Okay, this is how fucking cunty , fucking bitch face would tase
00:47:23
Adrian.
00:47:24
So I know what you're thinking.
00:47:29
Oh, oh, my god, a jolt of hot lightning frying the skin must
00:47:31
be excruciatingly painful, and you would be right.
00:47:34
But cunty didn't just give adrian a jolt, she held an inch
00:47:41
over his skin, creating an arc of electricity.
00:47:45
Okay, so this wasn't a quick zap, it wasn't a few seconds.
00:48:05
She did this for 20 seconds at a time, several times, repeat it
00:48:17
For days and weeks on it.
00:48:34
Speaker 2: Third degree burns Yep, you know what I mean.
00:48:38
And the sadistic.
00:48:39
Like you know, they ordered it from Amazon with the intention
00:48:45
to use it on this show too.
00:48:46
Speaker 1: You know what I?
00:48:46
Speaker 2: mean, that's almost even crazier.
00:48:48
Where it's like you know it was showed off, it was like hey
00:48:51
look what I got.
00:48:52
Yeah, that's the worst part about this whole thing.
00:48:55
It was all they didn't.
00:48:58
You don't just get a taser.
00:49:00
Speaker 1: Just to get a taser Right.
00:49:02
Speaker 2: It was completely all motivated to just torture this
00:49:06
poor child.
00:49:07
Speaker 1: Give this child the most intense, excruciating pain
00:49:12
possible.
00:49:13
Speaker 2: And third degree burns from a taser are not fun.
00:49:16
Speaker 1: No, nope, alright.
00:49:18
So I'm going to take this a step further.
00:49:22
So I'm going to show you exactly what 20 seconds would
00:49:27
sound like if you were an evil, disgusting excuse of a trashy,
00:49:32
scumbag, fucking cunt.
00:49:33
And I want you to picture poor Adrian on the other end,
00:49:39
screaming his lungs out as his skin and muscle is literally
00:49:43
frying to the fucking bone.
00:49:45
All right, so he endured this excruciating pain until both his
00:50:15
fucking shit stain father and fucking cunt stepmother got
00:50:19
tired of seeing him, hearing him feeding him whatever scraps
00:50:24
they could sporadically feed him , and they nailed the plywood to
00:50:30
the wall sealing 70-year-old Adrian in his cell, which
00:50:34
eventually became his coffin.
00:50:38
So, less than a week before Adrian's death, heather is
00:50:41
taking a selfie of her new haircut to show her friends on
00:50:44
Facebook.
00:50:44
She's using the mirror in the bathroom that contained Adrian's
00:50:49
sealed prison.
00:50:50
You can see the plywood Bolted to the wall outside Of the
00:50:55
shower stall and she's freely showing this and sharing this on
00:50:57
Facebook.
00:50:58
Inside this Shower stall is Adrian.
00:51:05
He's wallowing In a week's worth of his own shit and piss,
00:51:09
starving, dehydrated, injured, burned.
00:51:13
A week's worth of his own shit and piss, starving, dehydrated,
00:51:14
injured, burned, probably infected, infected.
00:51:17
Yeah, he hasn't been given food or water in a week at least,
00:51:25
and you can hear over the camera audio the struggling voice of
00:51:31
little Adrian crying out I'm gonna die.
00:51:42
Speaker 2: You got this, keep going.
00:51:43
Yeah, you got this.
00:51:48
Speaker 1: And her response to him Suck it up.
00:51:51
Oh man.
00:51:55
This was the last anyone heard from Adrian.
00:51:58
He died sometime shortly after, nobody knows when.
00:52:03
He stayed bolted inside that shower stall for weeks Until
00:52:09
Mike and Heather could no longer stand the stench of his
00:52:12
decomposing body.
00:52:13
So they contacted a local farmer and they purchased six
00:52:25
feeding pigs and they let them star for a few days before Mike
00:52:31
and allegedly the uncle carried what remained of Adrian's body
00:52:35
to the pigsty.
00:52:36
Speaker 2: It's the calculation that annoys the fuck out of me.
00:52:38
These two were so calculated with everything, even down to
00:52:42
starving the pigs, it just.
00:52:47
Speaker 1: And they stood there and watched the starving pigs
00:52:50
rip apart Adrian's flesh.
00:52:51
And he just stood there and watched the starving pigs rip
00:52:54
apart Adrian's flesh and when the last bit of me was gone,
00:53:03
mike placed Adrian's bones inside a plastic storage bin.
00:53:04
Now I said we'd go back and talk a few weeks of adrian being
00:53:15
sent to his father and heather.
00:53:18
We talked about the first claim , where dcf showed up to the
00:53:23
house and for reports of abuse and whatnot.
00:53:27
They witnessed adrian's black eye and all that kind of shit.
00:53:30
Well, heather had a biological son and he was taken.
00:53:35
She blamed a fucking three-year-old.
00:53:40
Yeah, he was the reason why her son was taken and from here on
00:53:51
out you are going to be my worst fucking enemy.
00:53:55
This is why this all fucking happened, because she was a
00:54:01
fucking shitty mother to her own fucking child and had him taken
00:54:05
away.
00:54:05
And, rather than facing the fact that you're a fucking piece
00:54:08
of shit, you blame a three-year-old.
00:54:13
Speaker 2: That's almost the most fucked up thing out of this
00:54:17
whole story.
00:54:18
You know what I mean, yep?
00:54:20
That you can't even take responsibility for your own
00:54:23
fucking sick twisted actions, that you blame a three-year-old
00:54:26
child.
00:54:27
How?
00:54:29
Speaker 1: Who was just answering a question of a social
00:54:31
service.
00:54:31
Do you guys get hit?
00:54:34
Yeah, did he get hit?
00:54:36
Yeah, what's a three year old going to say?
00:54:39
You know what I mean?
00:54:41
I don't think three year olds know how to lie they don't know
00:54:46
how to lie.
00:54:48
Speaker 2: You can condition a three year old as much as you
00:54:50
want.
00:54:50
They're going to be honest.
00:54:53
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like when you go to like an amusement park
00:54:55
or something.
00:54:56
You must be five years old to ride this ride.
00:54:58
Yeah, hey, you're going to be five.
00:55:00
Okay, a six-year-old.
00:55:01
Speaker 2: Yeah, you can't condition, I know.
00:55:02
A seven-year-old here and be like wow, mommy, why is she so
00:55:13
big?
00:55:13
Speaker 1: you don't mean like oh my fucking god, yeah, like,
00:55:14
yeah, they're still their own, they're gonna, they're gonna
00:55:15
speak the fucking truth.
00:55:16
They're gonna.
00:55:17
Yeah, yep, yep.
00:55:20
And all of this was because of that.
00:55:22
Speaker 2: So there's, there's evil in this world.
00:55:26
You know we we deal with it a lot on this podcast.
00:55:30
We do a lot of research and there's a special place Listen,
00:55:35
you know me, I'm not a big religious guy but there's a
00:55:38
special place in hell.
00:55:39
Oh yeah, and hopefully, hopefully, that 25 years I'm
00:55:44
going to, hopefully within that 25 years somebody finds her,
00:55:48
Somebody finds him too.
00:55:49
He's responsible.
00:55:50
That's your own flesh and blood , dude.
00:55:52
Speaker 1: Yep, so yep, they're both charged and convicted and
00:56:00
sentenced to 25 years of life, and right now they're rotting.
00:56:04
But they still have the possibility With the possibility
00:56:07
.
00:56:07
Speaker 2: With the possibility.
00:56:07
That's the big key.
00:56:08
Yep.
00:56:09
Speaker 1: So when their 25 years comes up, I pray to god.
00:56:12
There's somebody standing in that courtroom or in that parole
00:56:16
hearing or or whatever, and there's somebody there to speak
00:56:20
for him, to speak for adrian, because they should never, ever,
00:56:24
ever, fucking see the light of day again, ever.
00:56:27
And if there was fucking a death penalty for fucking child
00:56:33
abuse, fucking, fucking burn them all.
00:56:37
Speaker 2: The crazy thing about this story is I can.
00:56:39
I can smell the house, I can see like I can see the vivid
00:56:43
like details.
00:56:44
I like that's.
00:56:48
That's what gets me too.
00:56:49
And I don't get how, like I like I said I don't want to shit
00:56:52
on DCF workers and social workers and stuff like that but
00:56:56
how do you enter a situation like that and say, yeah, he's
00:57:00
safe, he's safe.
00:57:02
He's high risk, but he's safe At this particular fucking
00:57:06
second.
00:57:07
Speaker 1: He's safe.
00:57:10
You have to put the blame on someone and obviously the
00:57:12
ultimate blame is the parents, obviously, and the stepmom, yeah
00:57:15
, but but God guys there's, there's there's God damn checks
00:57:20
and balances in place to to make this, to avoid this situation,
00:57:25
and it just seems like every step of the way Adrian was
00:57:30
failed.
00:57:30
Yeah, every single fucking step away.
00:57:36
Yeah, he had so all right.
00:57:39
So in uh, 2017, uh, adrian's paternal grandmother, judy
00:57:43
conway, and his biological mother, diana.
00:57:45
They filed a civil suit against the kansas state of department
00:57:48
of child and families and employees of the miss Department
00:57:52
of Social Services, as well as two other social service
00:57:54
organizations whose employees had contact with Adrian before
00:57:58
his death.
00:57:59
The case alleged that, through a series of hotline calls and
00:58:02
investigations, social workers in Kansas and Missouri knew the
00:58:06
extent of abuse Adrian had suffered and ultimately could
00:58:10
have prevented his death, but failed to do so.
00:58:13
Stating in the lawsuit, unlike many other abused and neglected
00:58:18
children whose abuse occurs under the veil of darkness and
00:58:21
secrecy, adrian's mistreatment was a was a repeated subject of
00:58:26
a seamlessly endless series of reports and hotline calls to
00:58:30
social service workers and social service agencies in both
00:58:33
Kansas and Missouri, and they were asking for $25 million in
00:58:37
damages.
00:58:37
The case made it to the Missouri Supreme Court in 2019
00:58:42
after Judge Charles McKenzie declined to grant the Kansas
00:58:45
defendant's motion to dismiss the Missouri Supreme.
00:58:50
Send back the case to Judge McKenzie, referencing a 2019 US
00:58:54
Supreme Court case regarding whether a state could be brought
00:58:58
into another court in another state, and in this case that
00:59:03
would be Kansas being judged in a Missouri court.
00:59:05
Speaker 2: Now see, this is going to be controversial, but I
00:59:08
don't give a fuck about that.
00:59:08
I don't give a fuck about that either.
00:59:10
Nobody was there for that fucking child.
00:59:11
Nobody deserves to profit off of it.
00:59:14
You know what I mean?
00:59:16
Nobody who was trying to sue.
00:59:18
They were never there for him, they never tried to stop it.
00:59:22
Fuck you.
00:59:23
So I don't care, I don't care.
00:59:26
Good for Missouri for saying fuck you.
00:59:28
Good for the state.
00:59:29
Good, I'm glad that nobody profited off of this fucking
00:59:33
sick twisted thing, because Adrian should have been the only
00:59:36
one to profit off of that.
00:59:37
Speaker 1: Right.
00:59:37
In December of 2020, the plaintiffs, the grandmother and
00:59:42
mother, dismissed the case against the two undisclosed
00:59:46
social services agencies after a confidential settlement had
00:59:51
been reached.
00:59:51
So not Kansas or Missouri services agencies after a
00:59:53
confidential settlement had been reached.
00:59:53
So not not, not kansas or missouri, it's the two private
00:59:56
social service uh organizations.
00:59:58
Uh.
00:59:59
In january of 2021, judge mckenzie ruled that the
01:00:02
plaintiffs, the mother and the grandmother, did not adequately
01:00:05
plead a breach of ministerial duty and did not make clear
01:00:11
which clerical steps they allege Missouri DSS employees failed
01:00:16
to take in.
01:00:16
Speaker 2: Adrian's case.
01:00:17
He's completely right.
01:00:18
They didn't care.
01:00:19
They didn't care, they would see him once a fucking, once a
01:00:22
whatever in a blue moon.
01:00:23
No, fuck you, Stop trying to profit off of you.
01:00:28
Should have been there from the beginning.
01:00:29
Somebody would have actually reached out, tried to help them,
01:00:32
them tried to help that boy.
01:00:33
I don't care, you would have been as actively in this child's
01:00:37
life you wouldn't have got a fucking monthly, yearly visit,
01:00:41
whatever whatever it is fuck you so, judge McKenzie.
01:00:46
Speaker 1: He dismissed the defendants from the case.
01:00:48
So the Missouri case is closed, kaput.
01:00:51
Nothing's coming out of that.
01:00:52
So the Missouri case is closed, kaput.
01:00:53
Nothing's coming out of that.
01:00:57
Speaker 2: I believe the Kansas state is still kind of I swear
01:00:58
to God if they fucking get any more, If they win.
01:01:01
Speaker 1: Yeah, so in normal people terms which is me the
01:01:07
judge threw out the case as having no merit.
01:01:09
Okay, If there is any light that shines on this story, it is
01:01:14
that in May of 2021, Adrian's law was signed by the governor
01:01:19
of Kansas.
01:01:20
Be visually observed by an employee of the Department of
01:01:31
Children and Families or representative of the law
01:01:34
enforcement agency investigating the report.
01:01:40
Speaker 2: Both we're a little fucking late Bro, we're a little
01:01:43
late, oh yeah, so both.
01:01:45
Speaker 1: Kansas.
01:01:46
Speaker 2: You would think if we're doing a home visit.
01:01:48
Yeah, jesus, both.
01:01:51
Speaker 1: Kansas DCF and law enforcement must interact with
01:01:55
the child during joint investigations.
01:01:58
This is what totally fucks with my head in this situation.
01:02:02
It took until 2021 to pass into law what should have been
01:02:11
fucking common sense.
01:02:12
Speaker 2: From the beginning Of time Of the conception of the
01:02:14
agency.
01:02:15
Speaker 1: Yeah, you have to visually see the child, yeah.
01:02:20
Speaker 2: I don't know.
01:02:21
I guarantee you, though, I guarantee you, listen, I don't
01:02:26
want to talk shit on, but on underfunded states, yeah, like
01:02:29
Kansas, mississippi, you know what I mean.
01:02:30
Yeah, arkansas, but an underfunded state like Kansas,
01:02:31
mississippi, like you know what I mean.
01:02:32
Uh, arkansas, I guarantee you, the state that we live in,
01:02:37
you're going to visually, they're going to visually see
01:02:39
you know what.
01:02:39
I mean they're going to, if you if DCF comes to your house,
01:02:43
those kids better be there.
01:02:44
Yep, it's just how laws were made, how things were.
01:02:48
You know what I mean?
01:02:49
Absolutely Yep.
01:02:50
So I guess it goes all state by state.
01:02:52
Yeah, and I know there's a federal child protective
01:02:56
services, but they don't deal with things as like that the
01:03:00
state does Right.
01:03:01
Yep, At the state level.
01:03:04
Basically 2021.
01:03:06
Speaker 1: This was not a fucking law prior to 2021.
01:03:08
That just fucking blows my mind .
01:03:10
Holy shit, blows my fucking mind.
01:03:13
Speaker 2: I think the most horrible thing you know having
01:03:15
kids, you raise kids.
01:03:17
Anybody who has kids out there, anyone who's given a child a
01:03:20
life, and you know like seeing a kid experience something new
01:03:25
and be excited about the littlest things that you take
01:03:28
for granted and that actually makes you appreciate those
01:03:32
little things again.
01:03:32
You know what I mean Everybody knows that when you have kids.
01:03:37
Adrian never experienced a normal life.
01:03:40
He never got.
01:03:42
Like you said, the abuse started at three years old,
01:03:44
probably earlier.
01:03:45
He never understood what the real world was like and the fact
01:03:50
that I can't comprehend that, that somebody would take that
01:03:54
away from an expanding mind, a growing mind, just going to the
01:04:00
fucking park and having a good day, that is the saddest thing
01:04:05
about this whole thing.
01:04:06
That's the thing I can't wrap my head around.
01:04:09
Little life experiences, right.
01:04:12
The joy of riding a bike down a road yeah.
01:04:15
The joy of going swimming and not being tortured in a pool
01:04:21
yeah.
01:04:21
Like little things.
01:04:23
This six-year-old kid never experienced a happy moment in
01:04:26
his life and he still stuck it out until seven years old Blows
01:04:30
my mind.
01:04:30
That's why I'm going back to the resilience of this kid and
01:04:33
resilience in children in general and how they can brush
01:04:36
off abuse like it's nothing.
01:04:38
So that's that's my closing argument.
01:04:41
Just, you know, never.
01:04:44
I hope, like you said, when this trial goes in 25 years and
01:04:49
he's up for parole, I hope they get a judge who just says fuck
01:04:55
you, fuck you bud.
01:04:56
Speaker 1: Yep, All right, so I'm going to close this story
01:04:59
out.
01:04:59
I'd like to add this portion of a statement from Detective
01:05:04
Littlefield, who is one of the detectives in the case, and he
01:05:09
read this at the sentencing of Mike Jones detectives in the
01:05:11
case.
01:05:11
And he read this at the sentencing of Mike Jones, and he
01:05:13
says I have asked seasoned law enforcement officers if they
01:05:16
remember Ted Bundy, John Wayne, Gacy, Jeffrey Dahmer, and of
01:05:21
course you know they all said yes and he then asked them do
01:05:27
you remember at least one of their victims?
01:05:30
And they all said no.
01:05:36
He continues to say the problem with society is we remember the
01:05:39
criminals but not their victims .
01:05:41
I am begging you, please remember Adrian.
01:05:45
Speaker 2: Oh, I love that.
01:05:47
Speaker 1: He was seven years old.
01:05:48
He was tortured and beaten and starved to death no-transcript,
01:05:58
and when his parents could no longer stay in the stench, what
01:06:01
was left of his little body was fed to pigs, and that's
01:06:08
something that in 25 years or was it 20 years now Like they
01:06:13
need to fucking remember that shit.
01:06:14
You know, this is what.
01:06:17
You did this to a seven year old child.
01:06:20
Who the fuck does that?
01:06:27
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's, that's a, that's a.
01:06:28
What a fucking powerful statement.
01:06:29
I wish I was in the courtroom to hear that.
01:06:32
You know what I mean, absolutely.
01:06:35
Speaker 1: All right, so that'll do it for this episode of suck
01:06:38
it up.
01:06:39
Speaker 2: Oh, what a fucking shitty name for an episode.
01:06:42
Yeah so well.
01:06:44
Yeah, good job, dude.
01:06:45
Speaker 1: Well, that was a rough reminder of that episode.
01:06:48
That was a tough one.
01:06:49
Next up for Garrett's favorites is the crime writing, crime
01:06:54
fighting necrophiliac, gerard Schaefer.
01:06:57
Many crime authors write made-up stories from the dark
01:07:09
depths of their imagination, while some authors write
01:07:10
fantastical stories based on real criminal events and others
01:07:20
tell the true, detailed stories of a crime with factual evidence
01:07:22
from court records.
01:07:22
One author wrote his stories with a different approach,
01:07:24
unknown to his readers.
01:07:25
He was the one actually committing the crimes and he did
01:07:31
not spare a single gruesome detail.
01:07:33
Gerard Schaefer's stories were marketed as fiction.
01:07:35
However, in hindsight, some believe his stories were the
01:07:40
truth about how he killed a number of his alleged victims.
01:07:42
The true crime author was a true criminal.
01:07:46
A lot of true crime writing lacks authenticity.
01:07:51
The protagonist is a voyeur.
01:07:54
In their own story, the authors are usually good people who can
01:07:57
boast that they've not done anything worse than accidentally
01:07:59
run a red light.
01:08:00
Boasts that they've not done anything worse than accidentally
01:08:04
run a red light.
01:08:04
The main problem with criminals is that they're typically too
01:08:06
compulsive and uneducated to lend an articulate voice to
01:08:07
their crimes.
01:08:10
Gerard Schaefer masqueraded his nauseating, graphic murder tales
01:08:13
as fiction.
01:08:14
He was convicted of two murders , suspected by authorities of
01:08:19
more than two dozen and frequently boasted that his
01:08:23
death toll was higher than 80.
01:08:24
The sufferers in all of his plots were women and his stories
01:08:31
were used as evidence to prove his level of culpability, with
01:08:34
titles like flies in her eyes, whores, what to do about him and
01:08:40
blonde on a stick.
01:08:41
His stories were based off of murders he committed, but the
01:08:45
exact wording can't be placed to exact crimes.
01:08:48
His published books Killer Fiction and Beyond Killer
01:08:53
Fiction gave the idea that these were real accounts from the
01:08:56
actual murder.
01:08:57
They were all real, no matter how much the names and places
01:09:01
had been changed.
01:09:01
He continued his writing behind bars.
01:09:06
Some stories that he wrote were true accounts, while others
01:09:09
were part of his dark fantasies.
01:09:11
In one of his stories, simply titled Whores, he reminisces
01:09:17
about hanging a prostitute and having sex with her corpse is
01:09:22
about hanging a prostitute and having sex with her corpse.
01:09:24
In another story, named Spring Break, he tells the story of
01:09:25
fatally stabbing and disemboweling a co-ed during sex
01:09:28
.
01:09:28
Which of these are real and which are fiction, it's hard to
01:09:34
tell with a mind as dark as Schaefer's.
01:09:35
What made Schaefer this way?
01:09:39
Was he always this dark soul wanting and needing to kill?
01:10:09
Gerard Schaefer was born on March 25, 1946, in Wisconsin and
01:10:14
then raised in Atlanta, georgia .
01:10:15
He was the first child of three to Gerard John Schaefer Sr and
01:10:18
Doris Marie Runcie.
01:10:18
His family permanently relocated to Florida in 1960.
01:10:23
Schaefer described his childhood as troubled and
01:10:25
turbulent, mostly because of his family's frequent relocations.
01:10:28
His father was also an alcoholic and was often verbally
01:10:31
abusive to his wife and children.
01:10:32
His father's frequent absences also made Gerard Jr weary of his
01:10:37
father and he also felt that his father liked his sister more
01:10:40
and the constant belittling cemented those thoughts.
01:10:43
This made it so.
01:10:46
Gerard became closer with his mother and Doris was extremely
01:10:50
protective of her children.
01:10:53
When Schaefer was a child, he preferred outdoor activities.
01:10:55
This love of the outdoors turned into an interest in
01:10:59
nature and he collected guns and loved to hunt and fish.
01:11:02
These activities he would share with his father when he was
01:11:06
home and not being abusive.
01:11:08
Gerard wasn't really a loner growing up, but his classmates
01:11:12
would say that he was not part of any clique.
01:11:14
He would often pursue his interests alone and he was
01:11:18
viewed as an outdoorsman and they believed he would become a
01:11:21
forest ranger.
01:11:22
When Schaefer was just 12, he would tie himself to a tree and
01:11:27
quote I'd get excited sexually and do something to hurt myself.
01:11:33
The violent self-loathing went back to his earliest childhood
01:11:36
games.
01:11:37
In these games, he says, I always got killed.
01:11:42
I wanted to die.
01:11:44
My father favored my sister, so I wanted to be a girl.
01:11:48
I was such a disappointment to my family, to my father.
01:11:52
He loved my sister.
01:11:53
I couldn't please my father, so in playing games I always
01:11:58
wanted to be killed.
01:11:59
By the time Schaefer was a teen, he had developed erotic
01:12:02
fantasies of hurting women who he thought were worthy of his
01:12:05
contempt.
01:12:05
These fantasies evolved into sadomasochism and bondage.
01:12:09
He would always wear women's underwear until he reached
01:12:13
orgasm via autoerotic assocciation.
01:12:16
These fantasies would increase in terms of frequency and
01:12:21
intensity with time gradually dominating many of his waking
01:12:28
hours.
01:12:29
Schaefer also became a peeping Tom in his mid-teens and
01:12:34
developed the habit of cross-dressing.
01:12:35
His female classmates viewed him with disdain.
01:12:40
Barbara Krolik, a former classmate, later recalled I
01:12:42
can't remember him being friends with any of the guys.
01:12:44
He was always on the outside looking in.
01:12:46
As a matter of fact, the only thing I really remember is that
01:12:51
I always had to tuck my skirt under my legs because he would
01:12:54
practically stand on his head to look up a girl's skirt.
01:12:56
Although his social life was not very social, his teachers
01:13:01
would call him a promising student.
01:13:02
He was a member of the varsity football team during his
01:13:06
sophomore and junior years and he is known to have been an
01:13:09
excellent golfer.
01:13:11
When he graduated from St Thomas Aquinas High School in June of
01:13:13
1964, he briefly worked as a fishing guide in the Everglades
01:13:18
before enrolling at Broward Community College.
01:13:20
Guide in the Everglades before enrolling at Broward Community
01:13:24
College.
01:13:25
While at Broward he started as a social studies major, but in
01:13:32
September of 1964, he switched to teaching.
01:13:35
Upon completion of his sophomore year at Broward, he
01:13:37
applied for and was accepted for , scholarship at Florida
01:13:39
Atlantic University in Boca Raton, where he began his
01:13:40
studies in 1968 with aspirations to obtain a Bachelor of Arts in
01:13:44
Education.
01:13:45
In December of 1968, schaefer married his fiancée, martha
01:13:51
Louise Fogg, a fellow FAU student.
01:13:53
She was two years younger than him and they had met at Broward.
01:13:57
Their relationship soon soured, both due to Schaefer's
01:14:00
incessant demands for sex and his spending much of his free
01:14:04
time hunting.
01:14:04
Gerard and Martha divorced on May 2, 1970.
01:14:08
She cited his extreme cruelty as the reason for their
01:14:11
separation.
01:14:14
Gerard worked as a teacher for a time.
01:14:16
He was not successful in this.
01:14:18
He was hard-headed and didn't accept advice from his superiors
01:14:22
and co -workers.
01:14:23
He was also underqualified and had very limited knowledge on
01:14:27
the subject he taught.
01:14:28
He was only a teacher for a little over a year.
01:14:32
His next endeavor was becoming a police officer.
01:14:36
He started as a security guard with the Wackenhut Corporation,
01:14:41
but on September 1st 1970, he applied for a vacancy within the
01:14:45
Wilton Manors Police Department .
01:14:47
He did not disclose that he had twice been fired from teaching
01:14:50
positions and falsely claimed to have acquired two years of
01:14:54
experience as a research assistant at FAU.
01:14:56
They did not verify his work history and he was formally
01:15:00
inducted into the Broward County Police Department in September
01:15:03
of 1971.
01:15:05
He graduated as a patrolman at the end of the year, at the age
01:15:08
of 25.
01:15:12
While Schaefer was still working as a security guard in 1971, he
01:15:16
met a 19-year-old secretary named Teresa Dean.
01:15:19
They married in September of that year.
01:15:22
This marriage was more harmonious because Teresa gave
01:15:26
in to his demands for sex and she also shared his passion for
01:15:30
fishing in locations such as the Florida Keys.
01:15:32
Schaefer only lasted six months at the Wilton Manors Police
01:15:37
Department.
01:15:38
His performance was considered poor, although he did receive
01:15:42
accommodation from his superiors in March of 1972 for his
01:15:45
actions during a raid on a drug house.
01:15:47
He was dismissed from his position when his superiors
01:15:51
discovered his habit of stopping cars driven by females who
01:15:54
committed minor traffic infractions.
01:15:56
He would enter the license plate numbers into a database to
01:16:00
obtain personal details about them before contacting them to
01:16:04
request dates.
01:16:04
Our writer police officer wasn't as slick as he may have
01:16:18
thought.
01:16:18
He was overconfident in his position as an officer.
01:16:24
On July 21st 1972, schaefer encountered two teenage
01:16:28
hitchhikers named Nancy Ellen Trotter and Paula Sue Wells,
01:16:32
aged 18 and 17 respectively.
01:16:34
He drove the two girls to their destination while scolding them
01:16:38
about the dangers of hitchhiking.
01:16:39
Once he learned that neither girl was native to Florida and
01:16:43
that the two were intending to travel to Jensen Beach, schaefer
01:16:46
proposed to drive them there himself.
01:16:48
The girls accepted the offer and agreed to meet him at a
01:16:53
bandstand on East Ocean Boulevard at 9.15 am.
01:16:56
The next morning Schaefer met up with the girls as agreed upon
01:17:01
.
01:17:01
He was not wearing his uniform and he was driving his own car.
01:17:05
The next morning, schaefer met up with the girls as agreed upon
01:17:07
.
01:17:07
He was not wearing his uniform and he was driving his own car.
01:17:09
Despite these facts, he told the girls he was still on duty.
01:17:11
He told them he was undercover and driving an unmarked car.
01:17:18
Not long after departing, schaefer deviated from their
01:17:19
intended route.
01:17:20
He told them he wanted to show them an old Spanish fort.
01:17:22
He also continued to lecture the girls about hitchhiking and
01:17:28
accepting rides from random strangers and told them that
01:17:30
they could be sold into white slavery.
01:17:31
He finally ended up stopping by a dilapidated shed deep inside
01:17:35
a remote forest where he handcuffed and gagged the girls.
01:17:38
He took one of the girls to a large cypress tree close to the
01:17:42
Indian River.
01:17:42
He tied her legs to the trunk just below her knees before
01:17:46
binding a noose around her neck.
01:17:48
The other end of the rope was tied to a branch in such a
01:17:52
manner as to force her to stand on the exposed roots to counter
01:17:56
the pressure from the noose.
01:17:57
Schaefer then took the other girl to another tree where she
01:18:02
was bound in a similar manner.
01:18:03
Both girls were told that he was going to rape and kill them.
01:18:09
Just at that moment, schaefer received an urgent radio
01:18:12
dispatch telling him to report back to the police station
01:18:15
immediately.
01:18:15
He had no choice but to leave the girls bound and gagged.
01:18:18
While he had responded to the call, he threatened both girls
01:18:23
that he would soon return and that he was to confer with the
01:18:26
individual that he was intending to sell them to.
01:18:28
The girls, of course, escaped when Schaefer returned to the
01:18:33
forest almost two hours later, he made the discovery of their
01:18:36
escape Panicked.
01:18:38
He immediately returned home and called his station, where he
01:18:41
spoke to Sheriff Robert Crowder .
01:18:42
He told the sheriff I've done something very foolish.
01:18:47
You'll be mad at me.
01:18:49
Schaefer then downplayed what he had done and explained that
01:18:53
he was trying to teach the girls a lesson on the risks of
01:18:56
hitchhiking, but that he overdid the job.
01:18:58
He then explained that he had abandoned the girls on the
01:19:02
swampland near Hutchinson Island , not far from the Indian River.
01:19:08
The sheriff and Lieutenant Melvin Waldron immediately
01:19:11
proceeded to Florida State Road A1A where they discovered a
01:19:14
desperate, partially gagged teenage girl with her hands tied
01:19:17
behind her back, swimming via a flutter kick in a river as the
01:19:22
officer slowed to a halt.
01:19:23
They observed the distraught girl clamber from the riverbank
01:19:26
with sections of her jeans and blouse shredded, attempting to
01:19:29
get their attention.
01:19:30
They removed the gag from the girl's mouth and she identified
01:19:35
herself as Nancy and told them that her friend was somewhere in
01:19:39
the forest.
01:19:39
It was brought to her attention that her friend had escaped the
01:19:43
forest and flagged down a truck driver and was already brought
01:19:46
to the station 45 minutes earlier.
01:19:48
Both girls told the story of how Schaefer abducted them, tied
01:19:52
them up and left them.
01:19:54
They explained how they escaped and how they had to carefully
01:19:58
loosen the rope, because one slipped and they would have been
01:20:01
hanged.
01:20:02
Schaefer, of course, repeated his innocence and that he was
01:20:05
trying to teach them a lesson, but his story was not believed.
01:20:08
He was dismissed from the force and placed under arrest for
01:20:11
false imprisonment and aggravated assault.
01:20:13
While out on bail, he returned to the house that he and his
01:20:17
second wife had rented.
01:20:18
His wife and in-laws reported no change in his demeanor,
01:20:23
meaning that they really believed that he was trying to
01:20:25
teach them a lesson.
01:20:25
Then, on September 27, 1972, schaefer struck again.
01:20:33
He abducted two teenage friends named Susan Carol Place, age 17
01:20:40
, and Georgia Marie Jessup, age 16.
01:20:43
The three of them were attending an adult education
01:20:47
center in Fort Lauderdale and that's where they met.
01:20:50
He told the girls that he went by the name of Jerry and that he
01:20:55
was from Colorado.
01:20:56
He said he intended to return there after a trip to Mexico.
01:20:59
He feigned interest in the reincarnation in ESP, which
01:21:05
Jessup was interested in.
01:21:06
He was trying to integrate himself with both the girls and
01:21:09
gain their trust.
01:21:13
On the afternoon of their disappearance, susan's mother,
01:21:16
lucille, arrived home to find her daughter straightening her
01:21:19
room as Georgia sat upon a chair in the bedroom.
01:21:22
Both girls introduced Lucille to a man in his 20s whom they
01:21:32
referred to as Jerry.
01:21:32
Susan told her mother that she intended to travel to Fort
01:21:38
Lauderdale with Jerry to go to the beach and play guitar.
01:21:41
Lucille was a bit suspicious, but Jerry assured her his
01:21:45
intentions were innocent and even though Jerry had calmed her
01:21:52
nerves a little, she still made note of his vehicle, a 1969
01:21:55
Datsun.
01:21:55
Susan told her mother that she would be gone just for a little
01:22:00
while, but she would remain in contact with her.
01:22:02
The girls and Jerry left the home at 8.45 pm when Susan had
01:22:06
not returned after four days.
01:22:08
Lucille first contacted George's mother, shirley, only
01:22:17
to learn that her daughter had run away on September 27th.
01:22:20
Because of this, the girls were reported missing to the Oakland
01:22:25
Park Police.
01:22:26
Lucille provided a vehicle registration and a physical
01:22:28
description of this man named Jerry.
01:22:29
The registration was traced to a St Petersburg resident who did
01:22:32
not resemble Jerry Shepard, and they had a firm alibi for the
01:22:40
date of the girls' disappearance .
01:22:47
The only Jerry Shepard registered as living in Fort
01:22:49
Lauderdale was also eliminated by police inquiries, and Elsie
01:23:11
Lena Farmer, 13, vanished while hitchhiking to a commercial
01:23:15
boulevard restaurant from a Lauderdale-by-the-Sea motel in
01:23:18
October 26, 1972, less than one month after Susan and Georgia
01:23:22
were last seen alive.
01:23:23
Their bodies were separately recovered in undergrowth close
01:23:28
to Sunrise Boulevard.
01:23:29
Early the following year Both girls' legs were spread apart.
01:23:33
Mary Alice had been beaten about the head with one fatal
01:23:36
blow recorded.
01:23:37
Many of her fingernails had been torn from her body.
01:23:41
Implying a hard fight against her killer, elsie had been
01:23:45
bludgeoned to death.
01:23:46
The police questioned Mary's friends and it was revealed that
01:23:50
the girls would often visit a Lauderdale-by-the-Sea apartment
01:23:53
rented by the older sister of Mary's boyfriend and that an
01:23:57
individual by the name of Gary Shepard had been known to.
01:24:00
Mary by the name of Gary Shepard had been known to marry.
01:24:02
Three months later, colette Marie Goodenough and Barbara Ann
01:24:04
Wilcox, both 19, disappeared while hitchhiking from Sioux
01:24:08
City, iowa, to Florida.
01:24:09
Both were last seen alive in Biloxi, mississippi.
01:24:12
Their disappearance occurred while Schaefer remained free
01:24:16
prior to the beginning of his sentence for the abduction of
01:24:18
Trotter and Wells.
01:24:19
Their skeletal remains were discovered scattered close to a
01:24:23
large tree in an orange crate in January of 1977.
01:24:26
Both victims had been bound together with bailing wire, and
01:24:31
impressions on the tree branches indicated that one or both
01:24:34
victims had been suspended from the tree as their murderer sat
01:24:38
or stood upon the orange crate.
01:24:40
In March of 1973, lucille Place discovered a letter written by
01:24:45
Jerry Shepard in her daughter's bedroom.
01:24:47
She drove to the return address that appeared on the letter,
01:24:52
333 Martin Avenue in Stewart Florida, only to learn from the
01:24:57
building manager that Jerry Shepard had registered at the
01:25:00
property under his real name, gerard Schaefer.
01:25:03
Lucille also revisited the car registration that she had
01:25:08
provided to the police.
01:25:09
She realized that she assumed the car was registered in
01:25:12
Pinellas County rather than Martin County.
01:25:14
Having the police run the plate from Martin County, it was
01:25:18
found that the car was registered as a blue-green
01:25:21
Datsun that happened to be registered to Gerard Schaefer,
01:25:24
who resided at 333 Martin Avenue .
01:25:28
A father and son were searching for discarded aluminum cans and
01:25:31
discovered extensively decomposed remains of two
01:25:33
individuals scattered around a hole dug among trees in Old
01:25:37
Hammock Park in Port St Lucie, florida.
01:25:39
Deep scratch marks were evident upon the base of the tree close
01:25:44
to where sections of a torso had been bound to the base of a
01:25:47
trunk.
01:25:47
One victim wore the remnants of blue jeans with a circular
01:25:52
emblem of the Roadrunner.
01:25:53
The other body was completely nude with a pile of clothes
01:25:56
laying nearby in the undergrowth .
01:25:58
The location of this discovery was six miles from where Trotter
01:26:03
and Wells had been held captive prior to their escape the
01:26:05
previous summer.
01:26:06
Both girls had been bound and murdered and their spinal cords
01:26:11
were severed at the lumbar and cervical section, and several
01:26:14
bones were completely severed with a knife or machete.
01:26:16
Their heads had been decapitated after death and
01:26:21
their jaw bones sustained numerous fractures.
01:26:23
One set of remains, later identified as Susan Place, had
01:26:29
also sustained a gunshot wound to her lower jaw consistent with
01:26:32
a .22 caliber pistol.
01:26:33
There was evidence to show that both bodies were suspended from
01:26:37
the tree and the initials GJ had been carved into the tree
01:26:41
trunk.
01:26:41
Inside a locked bedroom at the Fort Lauderdale residence of
01:26:59
Schaefer's mother, police found 300 pages of lurid stories, some
01:27:01
including crude drawings Schaefer had penned and typed
01:27:04
over the course of several years .
01:27:05
These stories detailed the kidnapping, humiliation, rape
01:27:10
and execution by hanging of a number of teenage girls and
01:27:14
young women whom he routinely referred to as whores, sluts and
01:27:17
harlots, including two named Belinda and Carmen, and an
01:27:21
unidentified woman who he graphically describes hanging at
01:27:24
an unknown location close to Powerline Road.
01:27:26
The following story I will read was in Schaefer's possession
01:27:32
when he was brought in for questioning.
01:27:33
This story is extremely graphic .
01:27:38
Listener discretion is advised.
01:27:40
She was expecting dinner but instead was driven down a
01:27:55
deserted road.
01:27:55
She was asked to get out of the car and submitted to a frisk
01:27:59
search.
01:28:00
Then the handcuffs were locked around her wrists and the
01:28:03
blindfold placed over her eyes.
01:28:03
She was then led away into the dark to the place of execution.
01:28:06
She was assisted in mounting the ladder and sat down on top
01:28:12
of it.
01:28:12
The hangman's noose was placed over her head after a pillowcase
01:28:15
was dropped over her face in a hood arrangement.
01:28:17
She sat there very composed and ladylike while I adjusted the
01:28:26
rope.
01:28:26
She obviously had no inclination of what was about to
01:28:29
happen.
01:28:29
I told her some stories about Vietnam and then told her I had
01:28:32
to make a radio call.
01:28:33
I warned her that if she made a sound that she would be hanged
01:28:40
immediately.
01:28:40
I went back to the car and had something to drink.
01:28:42
I got out and tied the rope to the bumper so that if I pulled
01:28:46
away it would pull out the ladder from beneath her and she
01:28:51
would be left hanging.
01:28:52
I went back to see her and asked if she was comfortable.
01:28:54
She replied that she was getting bored and would I please
01:29:01
hurry up with whatever business I had to attend to?
01:29:03
I said I would, and before I went back to the car, I made
01:29:06
sure that the rope was tight around her neck.
01:29:08
She sat there very ladylike, in a black chiffon dress with her
01:29:13
hair done up and black pantyhose , on high heels.
01:29:16
She was wearing perfume and was very
01:29:19
sexy.
01:29:20
I went back to the car and finished off the bottle of wine
01:29:24
and then, promptly, at 9pm, I started the car and backed up
01:29:28
quickly.
01:29:28
I turned off the car and got out, straining to see if the
01:29:33
branches were moving in the trees or if there were any other
01:29:35
sounds.
01:29:36
There were none.
01:29:37
There were none.
01:29:39
After 15 minutes, which I judged to be a sufficient time
01:29:42
for her to die, I went slowly forward into the grave of trees
01:29:46
where the execution site was arranged.
01:29:48
It was nothing more than a rope with a hangman's noose over a
01:29:51
limb dangling above the ladder where she was to sit.
01:29:55
I had a light, but I almost didn't want to see what I was
01:30:01
responsible for.
01:30:01
I approached in the dark and could make out her body turning
01:30:04
slowly, suspended from the tree.
01:30:05
I went forward and turned to light.
01:30:09
I was a little shocked.
01:30:11
There was a considerable amount of blood staining the white
01:30:14
pillowcase hood that was over her head.
01:30:16
The noose was pulled tight around her neck and her head was
01:30:20
tilted to the side because I had placed the noose beneath her
01:30:23
left chin.
01:30:24
When I was within a few feet of her body, I could see that
01:30:28
where her feet had been tied tightly, that she had broken the
01:30:31
bounds.
01:30:31
Obviously, in her violent death throes One of her high heels
01:30:35
was kicked off.
01:30:36
I was probably shaking as I slowly ran my hand up under her
01:30:41
dress, just above her knees and began to work upward.
01:30:43
I felt a big hard growing in my pants as my hand traveled up
01:30:49
her legs, still warm and very much alive to me.
01:30:52
The inside of her thighs were wet, where she had urinated in
01:30:57
her panties.
01:30:58
Her underpants and pantyhose were soaked.
01:31:01
She was wearing her pantyhose over her panties.
01:31:04
That were white, nylon, mesh and very skimpy.
01:31:07
I lifted her dress in her wet slip and pulled down the
01:31:11
pantyhose over the back of her backside, just leaving her
01:31:14
panties.
01:31:14
I slipped my fingers beneath the rim of her panties down near
01:31:19
the front of her cunt and moved then slowly back towards her
01:31:22
asshole, fully expecting and hoping to find a nice pile of
01:31:26
shit.
01:31:26
My fingers found the hair of her ass an inch towards her hole
01:31:30
.
01:31:30
Her hole was open and my finger easily slipped into her hot
01:31:34
rectum.
01:31:35
There was a small amount of excrement littering the crotch
01:31:39
of her panties and more clinging to the area around her asshole,
01:31:42
but there was not nearly as much as I had hoped to
01:31:45
find.
01:31:45
I went back to the car and stripped and then returned to
01:31:50
the grove.
01:31:50
I then untied the rope and lowered her body to the ground,
01:31:55
where I stripped off her dress and pulled down her panties to
01:31:58
around her ankles.
01:31:58
I then draped her body over a crate that I had brought along
01:32:03
for that purpose and fucked her up her asshole.
01:32:05
I shot off almost at once and then felt very sorry for her.
01:32:09
Oh, before I took her body down , I forced myself to lift up the
01:32:15
pillowcase hood and look at her face.
01:32:16
The face was swollen and a little mottled.
01:32:19
The eyes were closed and swollen at the temples.
01:32:23
Her mouth was open and her tongue was visible, but not
01:32:26
protruding very much.
01:32:27
I was sick at the sight, but I left the hood off because of the
01:32:32
blood, which I didn't like.
01:32:34
After a few minutes I got on her again and fucked her ass
01:32:39
some more.
01:32:39
It was still hot in there and I shot off quickly once again.
01:32:43
Then I stripped her out and threw her clothes into a pile.
01:32:47
I then carried her body over to where I had rigged up a toilet
01:32:51
seat between two crates and I sat her limp body upon it.
01:32:54
I then went down beneath the seat and stared up at her cunt
01:32:58
and asshole and fantasizing that she was in the act of shitting
01:33:02
or pissing.
01:33:02
After a while I tired of this and left her body in the toilet
01:33:06
seat and went back to the car where I
01:33:08
slept.
01:33:08
After a while I went back to her and for the first time
01:33:12
noticed that she was getting cold on the outside but still
01:33:15
warm on the inside.
01:33:16
When I fucked her asshole again , this time I left her nude body
01:33:20
sprawled out on the ground with her ass sticking up in the air,
01:33:22
sort of like she was kneeling.
01:33:24
I went back to the car and went back to sleep again, feeling
01:33:29
sick to my stomach.
01:33:30
Later I woke up again and got out and went to her and stuck my
01:33:35
dick in her ass.
01:33:35
Again this time I noticed that not only was she getting cold
01:33:40
but it was also getting stiff too.
01:33:41
I woke up cold and went to the car, leaving her laying on the
01:33:46
pine needles after humping her hiney and then passing out over
01:33:51
her dead nude body.
01:33:51
The next time I woke up it was nearing daylight, so I went and
01:33:55
took her body, which was becoming stiff down in the
01:34:01
joints of her arms and legs, and dragged it over to the rope.
01:34:02
I replaced the noose around her neck and hauled her up to see
01:34:05
what she looked like in the gray daylight.
01:34:06
She was too difficult to haul up very far, so I took her down
01:34:11
and hauled her up on a lower limb where I could support her
01:34:14
body.
01:34:14
As I was pulling it up For the first time after removing her
01:34:18
handcuffs, I noticed that her wrists were very bruised, most
01:34:27
likely from where she tried to get out of her predicament just
01:34:29
before she died.
01:34:29
Earlier, I had leaned beneath her and looked up her dress with
01:34:31
a flashlight, but now, with her hanging there naked, she was
01:34:34
not too stimulating.
01:34:35
I went to the car and got a woman's slip and put it on her.
01:34:39
Then, as she was suspended from the rope, I stood on a crate
01:34:43
behind her and screwed her ass from behind, but it was hard to
01:34:46
keep her still on the end of the rope because she was wanting to
01:34:48
swing out.
01:34:49
Her body was cold by this time and it was exciting in another
01:34:53
way being able to fuck her cold corpse.
01:34:55
I got off inside her ass once more and then, since it was
01:34:59
getting late, I took her down and wrapped her up in a white
01:35:02
sheet and took her to the car.
01:35:03
I dumped her body in the trunk and picked up her things and
01:35:07
watered them all up, except her panties, pantyhose and slip,
01:35:11
which were soaked in her piss.
01:35:12
I wanted to save these for souvenirs.
01:35:15
I drove to another deserted spot and took her corpse out of
01:35:19
the trunk wrapped in the sheet.
01:35:20
I half dragged and carried it about a good 200 yards into the
01:35:24
bush along a dike.
01:35:26
She was very heavy now and it was real work just to move her.
01:35:29
When I got there I decided I wanted to dump her corpse.
01:35:33
I opened a sheet and rolled her out now, noticing that it was
01:35:37
full daylight and that she was still wearing one earring and a
01:35:40
gold chain.
01:35:41
These I took and threw into a canal.
01:35:44
Her clothes I also threw into another canal and then I rolled
01:35:48
her corpse down the side of the dike to a palmetto thicket In
01:35:52
the daylight.
01:35:53
Her corpse was very stiff and cold and grotesque.
01:35:56
She had large bruises on her legs from where she probably
01:35:59
kicked herself during her death rose.
01:36:01
Large bruises on her legs, from where she probably kicked
01:36:02
herself during her death throes.
01:36:02
This, together with the distorted face and her bruised
01:36:04
wrists, made her appear very unattractive.
01:36:07
I propped her up as best I could and stuck it in her
01:36:11
asshole again and then turned her over.
01:36:13
For the first time I really noticed her auburn V covering
01:36:17
her cunt.
01:36:17
I forced her stiff legs apart as best I could and screwed face
01:36:22
to face, which was not easy since she was very stiff and a
01:36:25
little tight.
01:36:26
From the rigor mortis I finally got my nuts off in her and then
01:36:31
I was exhausted.
01:36:31
For a while I sat and then decided to dump her body in the
01:36:35
canal.
01:36:35
I pulled her body down to the water and pushed her in head
01:36:39
first.
01:36:39
Her auburn hair swam around as she began to slip beneath the
01:36:43
hyanthus.
01:36:44
Finally the water came up over her butt and went into her
01:36:49
asshole.
01:36:49
I let her feet go and she sank beneath the water.
01:36:53
I went back to the execution site and cleaned up any traces
01:36:58
of our having been there and then went to a rock pit where I
01:37:00
dumped her pocketbook and the sheet and a few rags and things.
01:37:03
Then I went to Lums and had lunch on her money and didn't
01:37:09
enjoy it very much.
01:37:10
About two weeks later.
01:37:12
I was curious to whether she floated to the surface.
01:37:15
I was horrified.
01:37:17
When I went to see where she was dumped, I saw her body
01:37:19
swollen and bloated.
01:37:21
And went to see where she was dumped, I saw her body, swollen
01:37:24
and bloated, floating there.
01:37:25
She was face down and her hair was covering her shoulders.
01:37:28
Her ass was sticking way up in the air and I was looking right
01:37:32
at what had been her cunt and asshole.
01:37:32
The maggots had evidently been at work on her because there was
01:37:35
a big hole from her cunt to the top of the crack of her ass and
01:37:40
she stunk to high heaven.
01:37:41
She was putrid with all the flies buzzing and landing on her
01:37:44
too.
01:37:44
I poked her with a stick, trying to get her down under the
01:37:48
lilies, but ended up having to pile lilies upon her to hide her
01:37:52
corpse, which was a funny reddish
01:37:54
color.
01:37:54
Another few weeks and she was out from under the lilies again
01:37:59
and I tried to sink her with a few blasts from a shotgun.
01:38:01
I would almost puke when I got a whiff of her corpse.
01:38:05
It was that bad.
01:38:06
I would always go there and beat off toward her, just out of
01:38:11
range of the smell.
01:38:12
Eventually she began to rot away and every now and then,
01:38:17
when I could stand the stink, I would drag her out and try to
01:38:20
mash it with a stick.
01:38:21
It seemed even the maggots didn't want to have anything to
01:38:25
do with her at a certain point.
01:38:26
Anyway, finally I managed to break up the body and make it
01:38:30
sink.
01:38:31
I took the skull and let the ants eat her brains out if she
01:38:35
had any and then I pulled out all the teeth and scattered them
01:38:38
over the county, the lower jaw.
01:38:42
I buried the rest of her skull with the face smashed in and the
01:38:44
teeth out.
01:38:44
I put in another canal some 10 miles from the rest of her body.
01:38:47
All in all, she's probably scattered over some 30 square
01:38:52
miles and I hope that she will continue to remain among the
01:38:55
ranks of the missing, even though there is no possible
01:38:57
connection between us.
01:38:58
Also found in Schaefer's mother's home were 11 guns, bags
01:39:11
filled with live and spent cartridges, 13 hunting knives,
01:39:15
sections of rope and scores of softcore porn magazines in which
01:39:19
he had modified the women to depict them as urinating and
01:39:22
bound by ropes and hanging from trees.
01:39:23
37 black and white Polaroid photos showed women being hung
01:39:28
and mutilated in undergrowth areas in Florida.
01:39:30
Some images had Schaefer himself dressed as a woman,
01:39:34
simulating being hung, with fecal matter smeared across his
01:39:36
buttocks.
01:39:37
A letter dated July 20, 1971 from someone who lived in
01:39:43
Brunswick, east Victoria, australia, contains scores of
01:39:46
Polaroid images of a massacre that he had encountered in his
01:39:49
travels that depicted women who had been disemboweled and
01:39:52
mutilated with knives and axes Inside a jewelry
01:39:55
box.
01:39:55
Investigators found personal items such as jewelry, passports
01:39:59
and clothing belonging to several teenage girls and young
01:40:00
women.
01:40:00
Items such as jewelry, passports and clothing belonging
01:40:02
to several teenage girls and young women, barbara Ann
01:40:04
Wilcox's driver's license and a passport belonging to Colette
01:40:07
Marie Goodenough, who had been missing since January 1973, were
01:40:11
found in this jewelry box.
01:40:12
There were also teeth and scattered bones found on the
01:40:15
property as well.
01:40:16
These belonged to at least eight victims.
01:40:19
At Schaefer's actual home, two human teeth and several knives
01:40:24
and firearms were found inside a utility shed.
01:40:26
A blood-stained white pillowcase which had been washed
01:40:30
was also found.
01:40:31
Jessup's suede purse was also in the possession of Schaefer's
01:40:35
wife that Schaefer had given to her that prior
01:40:38
November.
01:40:38
On May 18th of 1973, schaefer was formally charged with
01:40:43
first-degree murder for the killings of Place and Jessup.
01:40:45
While being held before his trial, he was subjected to
01:40:49
psychiatric examinations and it was found that Schaefer suffered
01:40:53
from paranoia, psychosis and acute sexual deviation.
01:40:56
He viewed himself as an eliminator of women who he
01:41:00
deemed immoral.
01:41:01
He viewed himself as an eliminator of women who he
01:41:04
deemed immoral, but overall he was mentally competent to stand
01:41:06
trial.
01:41:06
Schaefer was sentenced to two concurrent terms of life
01:41:09
imprisonment.
01:41:09
Even at this point Schaefer was still proclaiming innocence and
01:41:19
that he should be sent to a psychiatric hospital as opposed
01:41:21
to prison.
01:41:21
On December 3rd 1995, schaefer was stabbed to death on the
01:41:26
floor of his cell.
01:41:26
He had been stabbed over 40 times about the face, neck, head
01:41:28
and body, with his throat also being slashed, his right eye
01:41:32
destroyed and several ribs fractured.
01:41:34
His body was discovered after a fellow inmate informed staff of
01:41:40
his death.
01:41:40
A 32-year-old fellow inmate named Vincent Faustino Rivera
01:41:44
had killed Schaefer following an argument over who received the
01:41:47
final cut of hot water from a dispenser days prior to his
01:41:50
murder.
01:41:50
Rivera never admitted to it, though, and it is suspected that
01:41:54
he was really killed because he was rumored to be an informant.
01:41:57
Many people say that he finally got what he deserved.
01:42:00
Jessup's mother was satisfied with the news of his death,
01:42:06
saying she knew it would happen sooner or
01:42:07
later.
01:42:08
Gerard Schaefer was a sick man.
01:42:10
He had dark obsessions and disgusting interests.
01:42:13
He acted upon these obsessions many times.
01:42:16
He wrote about them, he drew them out.
01:42:19
He was a horrible man who tormented these girls before and
01:42:24
after their deaths.
01:42:25
He isn't as famous as Bundy or Gacy, but he is just as
01:42:30
notorious and perhaps even more deranged.
01:42:33
People should know his story and the story of these poor
01:42:38
girls.
01:42:39
Yet he has faded into obscurity For anybody to name their true
01:42:51
crime, articles or stories or whatever flies in her eyes.
01:42:56
Whores, what to do about them?
01:42:58
And blonde on a stick they're pretty catchy.
01:43:03
They are catchy, Pretty catchy.
01:43:04
I mean, it would draw your attention you know yeah.
01:43:07
Like what the fuck.
01:43:10
Speaker 2: You know what I mean.
01:43:11
I mean, dude, there's some crazier shit than that out there
01:43:15
.
01:43:17
Speaker 1: I'm sure.
01:43:17
But I mean, if you're going through like Barnes and Noble,
01:43:20
you know some fucking flies on her eyes what the fuck is that
01:43:25
all about?
01:43:27
Speaker 3: it's in the kids section the new Dr Seuss book
01:43:29
flies on her eyes oh my, there's flies in her eyes, it's in the
01:43:32
kids section.
01:43:33
Speaker 1: The new Dr Seuss book Flies on Her Eyes.
01:43:37
Speaker 2: Oh my, there's flies in her eyes.
01:43:38
I do not want those flies on her eyes.
01:43:40
So sorry.
01:43:43
I was going to say some crazy shit, but I'll leave it at that.
01:43:48
I hope she cried before her flies on her eyes Before the
01:43:54
flies went in her eyes.
01:43:56
Speaker 1: Oh my, is that a stye ?
01:43:58
No, it's a fly in her eye.
01:44:02
Speaker 2: And then the whole time it's just like the who,
01:44:07
like the animated face of a dead fucking head.
01:44:11
Speaker 1: With a fly buzzing around.
01:44:11
With a fly buzzing around, Like what kind of Dr dead?
01:44:12
Speaker 2: fucking head With a flying buzzard around.
01:44:13
With a flying buzzard around Like what kind of Dr Seuss book
01:44:16
is this, oh man?
01:44:20
Speaker 1: Another thing I want to touch on is like Schaefer was
01:44:23
when he was growing up.
01:44:24
You know he wasn't really, you know, part of a clique, he
01:44:27
wasn't popular, but you know people were like, were like okay
01:44:29
with him, but he was viewed as a outdoorsman.
01:44:32
You know, as we talked about in the story, when he was 12 he
01:44:35
would tie himself to a tree and he would get sexually excited
01:44:41
and do things to hurt himself at 12.
01:44:44
That's pretty crazy.
01:44:45
That is fucking nuts, dude, when you actually put it in
01:44:48
context but 12 is like I remember.
01:44:50
Speaker 2: I mean, I saw my first porn when I was in fifth
01:44:52
grade.
01:44:53
Your first porn, my first porn was fifth grade, so like that's
01:44:55
what I mean.
01:44:56
So fifth grade is like 11.
01:44:57
But then again, that's also, I was born in 1991.
01:45:01
Yeah, late 90s Dude.
01:45:04
I was slaying back in that time , I know.
01:45:07
I was slaying I saw my first pair of tits on a fucking
01:45:09
website back in the day.
01:45:10
No, but I'm just saying like we had unfiltered access to the
01:45:16
internet too, so it was like I know what my kid's doing on
01:45:19
their iPads, like I have history , like that kind of stuff.
01:45:22
Our parents didn't give a fuck.
01:45:23
We had the family computer out in the living room.
01:45:27
I've talked about it on this podcast a million times but like
01:45:39
our generation were the first ones that had, like we, we saw
01:45:41
shit way too young.
01:45:41
Yeah, so it's like I.
01:45:42
Yeah, so nine, nine like 12, is it's a big jump.
01:45:43
Nine to twelve I feel like years at that age are is a huge,
01:45:45
huge, uh right jumping now.
01:45:45
Speaker 1: I want to.
01:45:46
I want to like this is going to bring up something totally up
01:45:48
and and everybody listening at home like I I'm sure you're
01:45:52
accustomed to us talking about one thing and then just like
01:45:55
randomly going off on something fucking else.
01:45:57
But here it is.
01:45:58
Do you think we've become desensitized to like a lot of
01:46:02
things?
01:46:03
Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure, ok.
01:46:04
So hear me out.
01:46:05
I'm going to bring up something that's not that nice, ok, but
01:46:08
I'm going to bring up the school , the shooting in Allen, texas,
01:46:11
for instance.
01:46:11
Speaker 1: Yes, Nice, okay, but I'm going to bring up the
01:46:12
shooting in Allen, texas for instance.
01:46:13
Speaker 2: Yes, we were talking about this the other day.
01:46:16
Yeah, I saw the video from the guy who was there.
01:46:18
It's gone.
01:46:19
It's really hard to find now.
01:46:20
It came out right away, it was everywhere.
01:46:22
Yeah, it was everywhere there when he came in with the camera
01:46:25
and he saw that little girl.
01:46:26
Yeah, I don't know, she probably was six, seven, yeah,
01:46:29
and it was like three or four other bodies, yeah with her head
01:46:32
wigged open and stuff like that .
01:46:34
It was an insanely tough video to watch, coming from someone
01:46:38
who watches gore videos and shit like that.
01:46:41
I've done it since I was younger.
01:46:43
It doesn't affect me the same way that some like I feel like,
01:46:52
like you said, I'm desensitized to it to a point, but I feel
01:46:54
like the only way that people are going to really realize,
01:46:57
like the older generation, who has been kind of seen lenses
01:47:03
like through, like a filtered lens, with these news stories
01:47:05
and these horrific things, I think they need to see that to
01:47:10
understand like the grand scope of things.
01:47:11
You know what I mean.
01:47:12
Like I think they need to see that to understand like the
01:47:12
grand scope of things.
01:47:13
You know what I mean.
01:47:13
Like I think, yes, I think the younger generation has become
01:47:16
desensitized 100%.
01:47:19
Speaker 1: It's kind of like.
01:47:19
You know we've mentioned this like numerous times on this
01:47:22
podcast.
01:47:23
You know we talk about.
01:47:26
You know we always bring up fuck what's his name?
01:47:30
From Manson.
01:47:31
You know he was stabbed 54 times yeah, yeah, you know, we
01:47:34
could talk about somebody being stabbed 54 times.
01:47:36
We could talk about somebody being shot, like you know, 10
01:47:38
times.
01:47:38
We could talk about all this other kind of stuff and people
01:47:42
like, oh shit, wow, that's, that's a lot, you know.
01:47:44
But when you actually see what it looks like to be stabbed 54
01:47:48
times, it it's fucking like gruesome.
01:47:51
You know what I mean.
01:47:52
So I actually asked that at work because you know we were
01:47:56
talking about that as well.
01:47:57
You know, should we start showing things like that?
01:48:02
You know, obviously we have an issue.
01:48:05
Speaker 2: But I honestly do think that these motherfuckers
01:48:07
who are making these laws and trying to figure this out need
01:48:10
to see this shit Like.
01:48:11
I think everybody's living through a lens like oh, mass
01:48:14
murder, blah, blah, blah.
01:48:14
No, go see the five-year-old with their fucking head wigged
01:48:18
open on the fucking ground, asshole.
01:48:21
Speaker 1: Now, gary and I, we're both in agreement on this
01:48:23
is that something needs to change.
01:48:25
You know, because everything that's going on you know
01:48:36
nowadays, everything that's going on you know nowadays, is
01:48:37
just fucking ridiculous.
01:48:38
Um, now, do our lawmakers need to see these images?
01:48:39
Do our, you know, do our vote?
01:48:40
You know people who are voting for for, you know, whoever do
01:48:43
they need to see these images?
01:48:44
Because or or or or do like again, do people, if we start
01:48:53
showing victims of of mass shootings, are they going to get
01:48:57
desensitized?
01:48:59
Speaker 2: As much as I'd like to say desensitized.
01:49:01
I don't mean to get politically here.
01:49:02
Uh, politically here it's.
01:49:05
It's more of like like, like you said we.
01:49:11
You hear a news article about a mass shooting or whatever, and
01:49:13
then you're like oh my god, there's like 10 dead.
01:49:16
Oh dude 10 dead the headlines have gotten so many that it
01:49:22
doesn't even like you're like ah 10, that's not even that bad
01:49:25
like at this point.
01:49:26
That's how it is.
01:49:26
That's like literally that's what I say.
01:49:28
The Allen shooter like oh 9, and that's horrible to say the.
01:49:31
The allen shooter like oh nine, like that, and that's horrible
01:49:33
to say that right, the rest of the world are Overseas listeners
01:49:36
are probably like do with all fucking car fine, and here in
01:49:39
the us Really yeah yeah, that's, that's fine and and that's so
01:49:45
desensitized I don't I here's my thing those videos that I want.
01:49:50
Every time I watch a crazy gore video or I see like some fucked
01:49:52
up shit, even though I'm desensitized to it, they stick
01:49:55
with me.
01:49:56
Yeah, they're still there, like I think anybody who understands
01:50:00
, like you can hear like if you hear, if there's sounds or
01:50:04
whatever like you can even hear the sounds in the video.
01:50:07
I don't care.
01:50:08
Anybody who's watched gone down the dark side of the internet
01:50:11
understands what I'm talking about.
01:50:12
I got you.
01:50:13
Yeah, you're desensitized to it .
01:50:14
You are okay with watching some pretty fucked up shit, but it
01:50:19
sticks with you and I think a lot of these video, like a lot
01:50:22
of these tragedies, need to stick with some people.
01:50:24
So next time when they're having a discussion with their
01:50:28
Uncle Johnny or whatever like this, you know what I mean.
01:50:30
Maybe that's in the back of their head, right?
01:50:32
You know what I?
01:50:33
Speaker 1: mean, I got you.
01:50:34
Speaker 2: How did we even get on this?
01:50:35
Speaker 1: 12-year-old watching porn.
01:50:37
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, it's kind of interesting to going back to
01:50:40
being desensitized.
01:50:41
Yeah, because usually when you look back at these stories,
01:50:45
these boys at a young age were exposed to something like being
01:50:49
or or being an older uncle that like showed him from fucked up
01:50:52
shit, or something like that.
01:50:54
They usually have it the fact that he was not watching porn.
01:50:57
You don't have the easy access in 1958 yeah, you're not you're
01:51:00
not watching uh scrolling the internet watching bondage porn
01:51:04
at 12, you know?
01:51:05
Speaker 1: I mean like we are nowadays yeah, you have to
01:51:06
actually physically fuck, so where the fuck did this kink
01:51:09
come from?
01:51:10
Speaker 2: because you know what I mean usually.
01:51:11
That's that that sexual awakening, something happens in
01:51:13
that age that kind of turns them into that's their thing.
01:51:16
Yeah, this guy just started getting rock hard when he tied
01:51:19
himself up out of nowhere.
01:51:20
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it says in a story that he had violent
01:51:25
self-loathing.
01:51:26
Masochism is weird.
01:51:28
Yeah, he was a masochist to himself.
01:51:30
You know what I mean?
01:51:30
Masochism is weird.
01:51:31
It's like yeah, he was a masochist to himself.
01:51:31
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know what I mean?
01:51:32
Yeah, but that's a normal thing .
01:51:34
But to the sexual portion of it is kind of like.
01:51:38
Usually you learn that somewhere I don't know.
01:51:41
I don't know.
01:51:42
Yeah, it's very interesting.
01:51:43
Yeah, that out of nowhere he just started tying himself up
01:51:46
and realizing he was getting hard by it.
01:51:47
Yeah.
01:51:48
Speaker 1: And then he started fantasizing about doing it to
01:51:50
women Slippery slope.
01:51:53
Yeah, he would choke himself out and fucking get off on it.
01:51:58
Yeah.
01:51:58
At that age.
01:52:00
Speaker 2: At that age.
01:52:00
So fun fact.
01:52:02
Somebody close that we work with I'm not going to say his
01:52:04
name on the podcast Is Okay, okay.
01:52:06
Speaker 1: Oh, all right, no, no , no, no, no, it's not weird,
01:52:09
I'm going to guess.
01:52:10
Speaker 2: He was an EMT.
01:52:10
He was a paramedic for a long time, a fire department EMT
01:52:15
paramedic, and he told me a story like some of most of the
01:52:20
deceased body, like when you I forgot what the code he called
01:52:23
it, but showing up to a deceased body, somebody found a deceased
01:52:26
body.
01:52:26
Yeah, a lot of them, more than you would think, were people
01:52:32
choking themselves out and masturbating and dying from it.
01:52:35
Isn't that crazy?
01:52:35
That's fucking nuts.
01:52:37
And if anybody listening who's an EMT or knows an EMT ask them,
01:52:40
because I guess that happens way more than you think.
01:52:42
That's like a very big kink, like suffocating yourself while
01:52:46
you're just rubbing one out, so that doesn't surprise me.
01:52:50
People are into some weird shit , man.
01:52:52
Yeah.
01:52:55
Speaker 1: Like when did that become?
01:52:55
Speaker 2: a thing I don't know.
01:52:56
I think you've got to try it.
01:52:59
Speaker 1: What do you mean?
01:52:59
Speaker 2: I don't know.
01:52:59
You've just got to try it.
01:53:00
Speaker 1: I've seen some people .
01:53:01
No, I know, hey, I'm down with that.
01:53:04
Speaker 2: I've tried.
01:53:04
Speaker 1: No kink, shame in here.
01:53:05
Listen, I fucking pretty much everything but you know it's uh,
01:53:16
but I'm just wondering like where who's the first pioneer?
01:53:17
Speaker 2: and well, no, no, I mean the belt around the neck,
01:53:18
masturbation.
01:53:18
Speaker 1: Well, bro, I mean, when did the fucking lead singer
01:53:20
from nxs die?
01:53:21
He he was.
01:53:22
He died from fucking choking himself.
01:53:23
Oh yeah, he did, didn't he?
01:53:24
Uh, david care, uh, one of the caridians, I forget which one it
01:53:27
was he fucking choked himself up.
01:53:28
But I'm just saying it's like when did it become mainstream?
01:53:32
Now, I understand introducing certain things to the bedroom
01:53:36
and everything like that, but there's people nowadays it's
01:53:41
common that people cannot have fucking sex or they cannot have
01:53:45
enjoyable sex without being fucking abused, fucking gagged,
01:53:52
choked, fucking slapped, you know, just fucking degraded,
01:53:57
while they're having sex.
01:53:57
Speaker 2: Yeah, isn't that crazy.
01:53:58
I think that that comes down to the ease of access of porn in
01:54:01
us watching crazy shit Like porn , has like corrupted.
01:54:04
Yeah, for sure.
01:54:06
Yeah.
01:54:06
Now imagine if they had the ease of access in the 50s.
01:54:09
Yeah, where would we be at at this point?
01:54:11
Right, like what if Jerob got his fix?
01:54:13
But, and again, what if he got his fix, never started doing it?
01:54:17
Right, you know, yeah, porn could have saved.
01:54:19
Speaker 1: Jerob, it could have.
01:54:20
It could, yeah, or it just made it fucking worse Because, like
01:54:33
you know, I was experienced and I did well, you thought you were
01:54:36
experienced well no, I, no, no, listen.
01:54:39
I experienced and I did experiment, you know, throughout
01:54:43
that time, and been with my, with my first one.
01:54:45
Let me tell you, back in the day, I was a fucking freak, but
01:54:47
when you, when you go back into the dating thing, it's like like
01:54:51
it's like the expectation.
01:54:53
You know what I mean it's.
01:54:54
It's it's like, before you know , you break out of like a
01:54:58
fucking, you know a paddle or a fucking whip, or you fucking,
01:55:01
you know pinching fucking needles with clips and shit, or
01:55:03
you're fucking.
01:55:04
You know what I mean.
01:55:04
Just something to like fucking spice it up in that fucking
01:55:06
moment.
01:55:06
Now it's like the fucking expectation, like if you're not
01:55:10
beating the fuck out of somebody while you're fucking them, it's
01:55:13
like, oh, he fucking sucks in bed, oh, he's horrible.
01:55:17
Oh, he doesn't do it for me, you know she's just laying there
01:55:20
like rolling her eyes.
01:55:21
Yeah, are you gonna punch me, are you?
01:55:23
Speaker 2: gonna punch me.
01:55:24
Yeah, it's getting a little wild out there, you know what.
01:55:27
Speaker 1: I'm talking about.
01:55:29
Speaker 2: I was married fairly young.
01:55:30
I was 23 when I got married yeah, you know, with my wife now
01:55:33
.
01:55:35
Speaker 1: Go ahead, tell your story.
01:55:36
I'm going to grow a beard.
01:55:37
Speaker 2: It makes me like wonder.
01:55:38
I feel bad for people dating in their like late 30s, because by
01:55:42
then everybody's been around the block for a while.
01:55:45
I almost feel bad.
01:55:47
I'm like the expectation is probably wild at that point.
01:55:50
Speaker 1: It's fucking nuts dude.
01:55:50
You know what I mean?
01:55:51
Yeah, so when I came out, I got divorced and everything.
01:55:56
And I came out and if that wasn't in your automatic
01:56:01
repertoire, you're fucking done for, you're finished.
01:56:06
You didn't get a fucking second .
01:56:08
Speaker 2: No callback.
01:56:09
Speaker 1: Yeah, no callback, he didn't spit in my mouth Right.
01:56:11
Yeah, Fucking fish.
01:56:15
Hook them.
01:56:16
You know Fucking spit in their mouth.
01:56:17
You know what I mean Smashing their face up against the
01:56:21
fucking wall while you're rambling them from behind.
01:56:23
You know what.
01:56:24
Speaker 2: I mean Jesus.
01:56:26
Speaker 1: Christ, what kind of podcast is this turning into?
01:56:28
But I'm just saying that's like the dating world.
01:56:29
Now, yeah, Like you literally have to physically assault
01:56:33
somebody.
01:56:33
Speaker 2: You're pretty much doing the same thing that
01:56:36
sparked serial killers in the 50s.
01:56:38
Yes, right, right.
01:56:39
Speaker 1: Yeah, at the end of the day, absolutely.
01:56:41
Speaker 2: That's their wildest fantasies are just a normal
01:56:44
Tinder date.
01:56:45
Speaker 1: Right, it's a fucking Wednesday A regular Wednesday
01:56:48
on Tinder Crazy.
01:56:50
Oh man, hard, regular Wednesday on Tinder, crazy.
01:56:52
Oh man, hey guys Good.
01:56:53
Speaker 2: To all you out there on Tinder Good luck, baby Right.
01:56:56
Speaker 1: Keep it up.
01:56:56
Yeah, fucking bulk up.
01:57:00
Speaker 2: You know, after listening to that story, I
01:57:01
completely understand why you gave a warning to our listeners.
01:57:05
Speaker 1: Bro, it's fucking.
01:57:06
Yeah, yeah, like I'm just going to put this right through this
01:57:10
right here, I slipped my fingers beneath the rim of her panties,
01:57:14
down near the front of her cunt , and moved them slowly back
01:57:18
toward her asshole, fully expecting and hoping to find a
01:57:22
nice pile of shit and this is a dead body too.
01:57:26
Yes, at this point, dave's getting the shivers right now my
01:57:32
fingers found the hair of her ass, an inch towards her whole.
01:57:37
Like what the fuck?
01:57:38
This is a dead body.
01:57:39
Yeah, like I Like.
01:57:42
I don't even think my warning was sufficient enough.
01:57:45
Yeah, no For what we just fucking listened to.
01:57:48
Yeah.
01:57:50
Speaker 2: And now you also I think you told me that that
01:57:53
story was you actually left the.
01:57:56
You actually you actually left his typos in the story.
01:58:03
Speaker 1: Right, yeah, yeah.
01:58:04
So our Patreon members, when we send out the scripted story,
01:58:09
they'll see exactly how it was found in his person, like the
01:58:12
typos and everything On his person when the police picked
01:58:15
him up.
01:58:16
Right, I do have to give a shout out to Beth Davis because she's
01:58:19
the one that brought this story to me and she actually sent me
01:58:23
this, his segment yeah, you know his story.
01:58:26
Shout out to Beth, yeah.
01:58:28
So as soon as I read the story when she sent it to me, I was
01:58:32
like what in the actual fuck?
01:58:34
Like this is the most wild fucking, like killer that we've
01:58:40
done.
01:58:40
And you know, and we can only assume.
01:58:43
Speaker 2: It is kind of wild to just spread a dead body and
01:58:45
just hope and pray that their excrement come out.
01:58:50
Oh God, because I mean everybody knows.
01:58:55
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, you lose all your bodily focus.
01:58:57
Speaker 2: Yeah, eventually, your body, your gases just give
01:58:59
out.
01:58:59
Speaker 1: And he's just sitting underneath her.
01:59:01
Speaker 2: Sitting under, staring up her skirt, which was
01:59:03
another fantasy of him waiting for this dead baddie to pass its
01:59:08
final gases.
01:59:09
Dude, that's crazy.
01:59:12
Speaker 1: There was a small mound of excrement littering the
01:59:15
crotch of her panties and more clinging to the area around her
01:59:19
asshole, but there was not nearly as much as I hoped to
01:59:22
find, Dude I don't even know what to say to that what.
01:59:27
Speaker 2: I don't even know what to say.
01:59:28
Speaker 1: The actual fuck dude, I don't even know what to say.
01:59:30
This is a fucking cool guy, dude, we can just go through, we
01:59:36
can just go through and just fucking like, pull out fucking
01:59:40
snippets like all over the place , like and every.
01:59:44
Speaker 2: The best part is his writing isn't even good he's not
01:59:47
even telling a good story.
01:59:49
Speaker 1: He's literally just telling about like the whole
01:59:51
fucking toilet seat, Like you just said.
01:59:55
Like who thinks of this?
01:59:57
Speaker 2: I got bored, I went back to the car.
01:59:59
He said I got bored.
02:00:00
I went back to the car.
02:00:01
Yeah, oh my God, crazy Like no words, no words, no words, no.
02:00:06
This is a true, true signal.
02:00:10
Speaker 1: Like you know we always talk about.
02:00:12
You know Garrett and I.
02:00:13
You know when we do, when we do episodes.
02:00:15
You know when we go into the whole discussion, part of
02:00:18
everything like that.
02:00:18
You know like we try not to force.
02:00:21
You know too much.
02:00:22
You know force information or force.
02:00:24
You know us talking or force anything and you know we always
02:00:28
abide by.
02:00:28
You know, let the story speak for itself.
02:00:32
And I'm fucking speechless on this phone, to be perfectly
02:00:37
honest.
02:00:37
I don't, I don't, I don't know what the what else, what else to
02:00:40
say?
02:00:40
Yeah, I don't let the story speak for itself.
02:00:44
Yeah.
02:00:44
And so, with that being said, I mean, take what you just
02:00:47
fucking listen to.
02:00:48
I don't know what you're going to do with it.
02:00:50
I don't even know what I'm going to do with it.
02:00:52
Like this story by far just blows every other fucking story
02:00:56
out and we don't, we don't have to add anything to it, we don't
02:01:00
have to fucking butter it up, we don't have to make it more
02:01:02
glorified.
02:01:03
Speaker 2: Just read the handwritten letter and we don't
02:01:05
have to fucking do anything.
02:01:06
Speaker 1: Read his fucking story and it just fucking just
02:01:10
like ends it right there.
02:01:11
So, with that being said, if you liked what you heard, what a
02:01:17
great ending.
02:01:18
I love it.
02:01:22
Go to Apple Podcasts, spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts
02:01:25
and leave us a review.
02:01:27
And don't forget, you can become one of the debauched by
02:01:30
joining our Patreon for as little as $2 a month for general
02:01:32
support.
02:01:33
Everyone gets ad-free episodes and access to our Discord
02:01:37
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02:01:37
Hot, hot, hot, hot Through the roof.
02:01:41
It's hot, it's through the roof .
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Those who join the $5.
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02:01:46
Those who join the $5 tier or above get all of our audible.
02:01:51
This fucking story fucked me up get all of our audible video and
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02:01:57
Five minute murder on patreon only not safe for work by weekly
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Just go to criminalafpodcastcom backslash support to choose
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02:02:17
Links to our support socials, merchandise reviews and more are
02:02:21
in the episode description.
02:02:22
Garrett, do you want to sign us off?
02:02:24
Speaker 2: and signing off from studio chloroform.
02:02:27
Keep your head on a swivel Until next time.
02:02:31
Speaker 1: Now give me our theme music, see ya.
02:02:35
Executive producers for this episode are Christine Rivera,
02:02:40
beth Davis, dusty J Hicks and Terry Burke-Mullen.
02:02:43
Associate producers are Paul Hodge, tara Mazur, chantel
02:02:47
Daggett, jay from Fright Flick FMK, sharice Webb, corey Cribs,
02:02:50
donnie Blake and Jared Rhodes.
02:02:52
Producers are Jay Dee, trent Gobble, devin Dean, ashley
02:02:56
O'Connor, alyssa Porello, alicia Knight, maria Selene, chris
02:03:00
Owen Not that Chad Emily White, ian Turner, emily Dickendasher,
02:03:06
debbie from Matt LeBlanc and Rene Prada.
02:03:08
Intro and outro music by David Mercurio.
02:03:11
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02:03:16
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02:03:21
Thank you.
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